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QUEST LIMIT?


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266 replies to this topic

#251 Guest_alysa_*

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 04:52 AM

Melekais idea is flawed, in that most 1st class quests already deserve rewards like that. :roll:

#252 Guest_alysa_*

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 04:54 AM

See also: My fix. The camping issue is a lot bigger than quest whoring alone.

#253 Despise

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 01:26 PM

holy jesus you should all become english professors at harvard!

#254 Caustic

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 01:35 PM

If someone starts a thread, they should be allowed to delete it. Most of us have said what we wanted to say on the subject, we heard what Vassago had to say, End of thread.

I had my day of venting my anger, I sucked it up and multied the next day, I don't agree with it, but what can you do? Move on and be glad you're playing for free.

-caustic-

#255 Scrooge

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 02:14 PM

I agree. The ability to post a new thread should come with the inherent right to completely obliterate any record of anyone who posted anything after it. That makes sense. After all, it's your thread. You own it!

#256 Guest_alysa_*

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Posted 10 June 2003 - 05:41 PM

I agree too. Anyone who has any selfish complaint, that is totally owned, should have the right to hide the fact.

Shame.

#257 Moostafa

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 12:04 AM

I think there were 2 really entertaining parts of this thread

1. The newbies don't realize that we aren't ordering them to multi we are trying to help them because they don't realize how pathetic their paths of choice are.

2. The people that didn't insult them.....me and Durova...among others were completely ignored about good reasons they should just move on. (Later they complain that they didn't hear any valid reasons but we were all just ordering them around).

*boggle*

#258 Guest_hikaru_*

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 08:29 AM

Melekai is right.

#259 Extemper

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 09:21 AM

just because someone didnt say oh that makes sense doesnt mean they didnt listen. dont feel that deprived :(

#260 Durova

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 11:57 AM

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who knows what they want from this game and accepts the tradeoffs gets a certain amount of respect.

I'm not too keen on people who assert there's any particular way the game "ought" to be played. It ought to be played for fun. Fun means different things to different people.

In Vassago's words, the main reason for this rules change is to prevent people from stockpiling practices and overtraining character stats early in the game. I think there are less radical solutions to that sort of exploitation.

1. Set caps on how high a character can raise stats during first class.

2. Set a floating quest cap based on stored practices. That is, instead of limiting total quests limit the number of unused practices. Different classes have training needs.

#261 Ciali

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 05:47 PM

Ok so I havent posted to this thread yet. I havent even read it all. I started the first couple pages then skipped to the end. But I do want to voice my opinion. I'm a first classer. I enjoy being first class. Its fun for me and I have other characters are are higher. I also intend to multiclass soon. I ALSO have no where near 850 quests. I'm a rogue which means i have lots of skills to practice, and I've done maybe 150 quests. For me, that's getting close to being enough. I'm upping some skills, my primary attribute (agility) and leaving the rest of my stats to equipment bonuses right now. I see no reason why anyone would need more than 850 quests in first class. It would be boring and you'd be level 60 forever . . . not quite what I want out of the game.

At the same time, while I am disliking Caustic and all the other who argue so vehemently for their unlimited first class questing, I must say I agree with one of their points, one which I think Durova agreed with. That is, I dont think its fair to force them to stop. I think they should be able to play the game any way they want to, whether I agree with it, whether you agree with it or whether Vassago agrees with it. I mean, its not how I would choose to play, but to each his/her own. You want to keep repeating the same first class quests over and over, and never do or go anywhere else, that's your perogative. I wouldnt, but I dont think its fair to make it impossible for those who actually do want to. Having questing benefits drop off after a certain point is a good idea, but I dont think its fair to outlaw questing altogether after 850 just because I dont think anyone should tell anyone else how to play the game. Rules are one thing. But they are meant to protect someone from other players and while I disagree with the specific approach, if that's how they want to play, I dont think we should outright stop them.

That's my two cents. Or ten cents -- I think its a long post 8)

#262 Tiera

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 06:51 PM

I haven't voiced an opinion on this matter(and in fact I was half asleep when I read the thread). Anyway Tiera is level 112 and only has 105 quests(which of course I still need). I probably only need 400(at max) quests to max out the important skills and my primary stat though I am a bard/barbarain so I had no need to worry about practicing spells. That said, it is obvious that I am not a questing whore...
Ok one thing, this is a game: Yes there should be rules, within reason of course, because if the rules become too strict less people would play(though to some this would be a bonus..*shrug) But within these rules one should be able to play in any manner they wish..even by *gasp* camping quests in your first class. The game is set up for people to quests(though not really questing upwards of 850 quests in first class) I personally disagree with the quest limit, though I would never even come close to that limit with my alts(for I do not like questing that much). Even a first class maxxes every single skill, every stat and trains hp/sp/st will still be weakened. Yes they would own everyone in there class level...but that is because they spent all that extra time to quest. Now there is an issue of characters maxxing hp/sp/st in first class, I think that this is a little extraneous for..what is the point of leveling because you won't be able to gain hp/sp/st?
Well since the main reason why they are those so vehemently with this decision, perhaps instead another solution can be applied. I had an idea(though it is quiet rough and perhaps not feasible). Ok let the first classer quest as much as he or she wants...she would be allowed to practice her skills and stats and her hp/sp/st to some extent..since the biggest problem is the max hp/sp/st(or so it seems) perhaps you can make a limit to those in first class..a good max could be around 800 or 900 to practice and if you already got that hp/sp/st from natural leveling you can practice it to about 50 more(maybe 100)
Now with that, not only does this keep a first class quest whore happy it will make it so there is a limit to their max hp/sp/st. I know this sounds a little awkard at first...but I am tired and I should be asleep...and perhaps I can try to explain this a little better..

#263 Moostafa

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 08:00 PM

Tiera you should read this forum again when you are more awake. The problem is not quest whores training hp/st/sp. The problem is high up peoples alts (among other people) class camp and this gives many of them a reason to move on but some don't like it.

#264 Tiera

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Posted 13 June 2003 - 09:17 PM

Perhaps it will give them incentive to multi, but does it really matter to have a bunch of level 60s running around sigil(or whatever town)? If that is the only problem I see that there is no problem...I have read over and over about the problem of quest whores maxxing all their stats, and if that is not the problem then why so many people would complain about it? You see that there is obvisouly not an issue...this post is starting to get pointless especially since the original point is no longer valid. Why would anyone care about level 60 alts running around unless they were worry that they would destroy the game either by being too good, or having too much money or whatever the case may be...? And after your post, I fail to understand this issue now...for if that is not the original problem then what is? Or is this just another place for people to complain(which I know that so many of us are oh so good at, and I am not even discluding myself for I have been known to complain)? I read the full 18 pages a few times now..and I see repitiveness...
One side says that they should be allowed to play the game as they wish...which I agree to some extent
The other side says that it is important for these people to have incentive to multi for various reasons. These include: being too good for their level and the amount of first classers would increase...
There are also other sides of course, for there are always more than two sides in any arguement but if that is not what this thread is about(well in essence its about the new quest limit)...I am officially confused and I would like someone to clear this up for this seems to be at the time a hopeless argument.

#265 Durova

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 04:42 AM

Okay, there are basically two good reasons for this change:

1. A few players trained hp/sp/st extremely high in first class.

2. A few players stockpiled so many practice points from easy & safe first class quests that they never needed to quest their alts again.

These are exploits that needed to be addressed. The new quest limit takes care of those problems.

This solution also has a drawback: it inhibits a legitimate playing style.

First class characters don't abuse the game while they train first class skills and spells. Some classes can go through 850 quests without maxing. Certain players really enjoy developing their characters this way. Whether or not you'd play that style yourself - you might even think it's foolish - that approach doesn't unbalance the game. It's harmless fun.

This is why I'd prefer replacing the quest cap with caps on stat raises and unused practices. Target the munchkins who exploit loopholes; leave the harmless folks alone.

#266 Haley

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 06:18 AM

I really wish ppl would stop ordering others around , only just yesterday while EXPLORING which vassago forces us to do i got killed by solus which cost me my first player kill for me a very very high reason to delete my char and to start all over again.
I can't express in words how much i dislike any type of killing other players and an every one who ever asked me to arena can aim that.

i don't quest to make my char uberpowerfull , i quest cus i like doing some thing. i made a rogue to help others track npc's for them.
i have leveled second class , 3rd class 4th class.
I even have played a Archon which i got bored on with in two weeks.

for those who max there chars at first class i fully understand simply cus way back vass already screwed up the leveling system gawd how clearly do i remeber the days you could level in a form in Temp dungeons and all got 50K exp. now you have to be lucky to only get 18K.

and then he screwed with the quest system from unlimited to only 5 , okay could live with that , made it even a little more equal to those who had/have limited time to play as every one could choose there own time to do those quests , but then he changed it again to only 2 quests per QM and if you wane do more find another QM if not you have to wait 2 hours etc etc , and now the first class cap.

so yes i could see why ppl max there first classer so they didn't have to go through all the annoying time wasting quests in second/3rd and 4th class and just spend time leveling.

#267 Vassago

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 12:05 PM

I have yet to see any legitimate claims for people who "just want to play the way they want to". All of those people are alts who are trying to get a surplus of practices. All the other claims from the same people that "they just want to play the game" are disingenuous and are put forth because their real positions are so weak they can't support them.

So the claim that this somehow hurts legitimate first classers, is false.

Anyway, I think this thread has reached its limit. No new information has been put forth and it's just people repeating themselves (as I just did).