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#26 Solus

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 02:32 PM

Nah, it was because short over-rewarding quests lead to people camping to take advantage of the better practice rate and such.
Also, it causes practice inflation. (this is the part i am probably wording badly)
Basically, 4 practices used to be considered a good reward. Then 5 became a good reward. Used to, a hard quest for 5 practices would be a good reason to do a hard/risky quest. Now, people are more likely to turn in 4 and 5 practice quests if they are risky.

#27 Olf

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 02:34 PM

Excuse me, I was trying to make a point here, but obviously some of us are blind to the fact I was trying to make.

This actually had nothing to do with that quest, rather, an experimentation and the immortals know what I am talking about, especially Vassago. Thank you.

#28 Extemper

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 03:08 PM

Good job with your experiment... :roll:
Anyway I've done this quest and the starving lion is not easy to find *unless you have track...in the wilds*
Plus there is only one mage that triggers the quest part.
The standard of hard and easy are blurry at best so really can't say over rewarding.

#29 Guest_shards_*

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 05:48 PM

hmm, i may not have considered the strength of a first class mage doing slaughter down below...
Can a first class mage kill a cyclops or earth element in wroth?



ranger can. not hard. dunno about wiz / psi / monk though

#30 Molo

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 11:03 PM

Solus:
I could kill both those mobs easily 1st class, and by my estimates 83% of all first class mages can too.

Didnt you know that 47% of all statitics are made up on the spot, and noone bothers to check the validity of them?

#31 Guest_lothos_*

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 02:08 PM

Here's some more interesting stats on quest rewards, broken down by QM...


Overall:
  questmaster   | quests | avg pp | stddev pp | avg qp | stddev qp
----------------+--------+--------+-----------+--------+-----------
 Lady Templeton |    149 |   4.65 |      1.34 |  49.43 |     12.43
 Lady Undya     |    103 |   4.93 |      2.32 |  46.06 |     20.88
 Lord Agrippa   |    312 |   5.10 |      2.37 |  50.91 |     19.57
 Lord Maldra    |     56 |   6.84 |      1.46 |  65.95 |     11.42
 Lord Telleri   |    194 |   3.63 |      1.86 |  39.43 |     18.07
 Lord Vashir    |    236 |   5.21 |      1.95 |  52.77 |     17.51
 Lord Vendredi  |    251 |   4.32 |      2.35 |  45.27 |     22.39
(7 rows)

First Class:
  questmaster   | quests | avg pp | stddev pp | avg qp | stddev qp
----------------+--------+--------+-----------+--------+-----------
 Lady Templeton |     84 |   4.43 |      1.17 |  48.44 |     11.23
 Lady Undya     |     63 |   3.86 |      1.34 |  40.19 |     15.22
 Lord Agrippa   |    103 |   3.77 |      0.95 |  40.38 |     10.51
 Lord Telleri   |    101 |   3.13 |      0.93 |  34.32 |     10.03
 Lord Vashir    |     86 |   3.83 |      1.09 |  40.86 |     11.82
 Lord Vendredi  |     86 |   2.67 |      1.14 |  29.45 |     12.92
(6 rows)

Second Class:
  questmaster   | quests | avg pp | stddev pp | avg qp | stddev qp
----------------+--------+--------+-----------+--------+-----------
 Lady Templeton |     84 |   4.63 |      1.00 |  50.30 |     10.29 
 Lady Undya     |     32 |   5.16 |      1.08 |  50.50 |     14.88 
 Lord Agrippa   |     73 |   4.70 |      1.29 |  48.89 |     12.52 
 Lord Maldra    |      9 |   5.78 |      1.39 |  59.22 |     10.34 
 Lord Telleri   |     50 |   4.02 |      0.68 |  43.26 |      7.99
 Lord Vashir    |     98 |   4.87 |      1.12 |  51.08 |     12.81
 Lord Vendredi  |     53 |   3.62 |      1.24 |  39.77 |     14.55
(7 rows)

Third Class
  questmaster   | quests | avg pp | stddev pp | avg qp | stddev qp
----------------+--------+--------+-----------+--------+-----------
 Lady Templeton |     15 |   6.07 |      1.44 |  65.53 |      9.51 
 Lady Undya     |     16 |   6.31 |      2.02 |  53.00 |     26.95 
 Lord Agrippa   |     49 |   6.61 |      1.78 |  65.00 |     14.49 
 Lord Maldra    |     38 |   6.63 |      1.40 |  64.47 |     10.81 
 Lord Telleri   |     23 |   6.30 |      1.96 |  63.48 |     18.02
 Lord Vashir    |     94 |   5.62 |      1.61 |  57.13 |     14.19
 Lord Vendredi  |     71 |   5.38 |      1.82 |  57.75 |     18.22
(7 rows)

Fourth Class:
  questmaster   | quests | avg pp | stddev pp | avg qp | stddev qp 
----------------+--------+--------+-----------+--------+-----------
 Lady Templeton |      8 |   6.63 |      1.85 |  58.00 |     21.19 
 Lady Undya     |     23 |   8.13 |      1.94 |  66.26 |     24.54 
 Lord Agrippa   |     92 |   7.98 |      1.39 |  73.64 |     10.71 
 Lord Maldra    |     41 |   7.24 |      1.11 |  68.51 |      9.56 
 Lord Telleri   |     15 |   7.93 |      1.94 |  82.33 |     19.11 
 Lord Vashir    |     62 |   7.32 |      1.68 |  67.31 |     15.85 
 Lord Vendredi  |     59 |   6.61 |      1.88 |  67.58 |     17.07
(7 rows)

Archon:
  questmaster   | quests | avg pp | stddev pp | avg qp | stddev qp 
----------------+--------+--------+-----------+--------+-----------
 Lady Templeton |      7 |   6.86 |      1.86 |  57.71 |     22.87 
 Lady Undya     |     19 |   8.32 |      1.92 |  69.84 |     23.22 
 Lord Agrippa   |     84 |   8.02 |      1.31 |  73.37 |     11.03 
 Lord Maldra    |     38 |   7.32 |      1.07 |  68.53 |      9.71 
 Lord Telleri   |     13 |   8.23 |      1.92 |  84.46 |     19.67 
 Lord Vashir    |     55 |   7.29 |      1.69 |  67.38 |     16.66 
 Lord Vendredi  |     50 |   7.12 |      2.09 |  69.52 |     17.79
(7 rows)


Lady Templeton seems to have abnormally high rewards for first class, given that the average PP is almost 4.5 and the std deviation is 1.17. She also has the highest average QP for 3rd class, good average PP, and the lowest std deviation in QP guarantees good rewards for every quest.

Lord Agrippa is a very strong contender for best "all-around" quest master. And despite rumors that Lord Maldra has the "best" rewards, we see that this is simply not the case. However, I don't have every quest in the game so none of these figures are guaranteed to be correct. I've seen Lady Templeton giving out quests with insane rewards for hitting all the bars in Templeton.

The most irritating thing is how people will simple refuse quests that don't give the rewards they want, knowing that there are quests that have much higher rewards.

I would propose that another change to questing be implemented that has to do with refusal of quests. Instead of simply allowing players to refuse quests to their heart's content, impliment another limit -- a limit on refusals.
Lord Vendredi tells you, 'Whilst I appreciate thy tenacity, Lothos, I have recently given thee several quests, but you refused to complete them. Mayhaps you should try one of the other questmasters in the realm.'


#32 Bortaz

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 02:54 PM

Hide the rewards, and make them random (based on a low/high limit for the level of the quest).

#33 Rathas

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 11:19 PM

The quests i turn in are the ones that arnt worth my time, like a 4 pracer that all 6 of the steps for are in pk and next to areas that are cpk sorry not worth my time to go up there and risk getting cpked for 4 pracs. or the ones that are 3 or 4 pracers and require me to run to three differnt cities to complete sorry once again not worth my time i could understand 3 to 4 pracs if the cities where on the same land mass but there not run to sigil run to xav and run to arcane is not worth 3 to 4 pracs.

#34 Moordal

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 12:55 AM

Maybe one of the imms should start a special project
to make the rewards for existing quests in line with
the guidelines of the current quest submission rules.

It's a lot of work, but if you divide it over a fairly
large group of people it should be doable.

If any imm decides this is a good idea, I'll volunteer
to help with the 1st and 2nd class quests.

#35 Moostafa

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 09:14 AM

Nah, it was because short over-rewarding quests lead to people camping to take advantage of the better practice rate and such.


Kind of like what you have been doing all along?

#36 Guest_lothos_*

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 09:14 AM

Be sure to keep a record of the changes and send them to me 8)

#37 Geobog

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 12:19 PM

I kinda like Bortaz's idea. Though you know there would be outcries "poor me I always get less practices than anyone else and that is the reason I suck it's not my fault at all!"

But then again, the immortals are probably used to handling that.

And cool work on the stats, Lothos. That was organized and well done.

#38 Vassago

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 12:52 PM

Hiding the rewards is a good idea...

#39 Zhamadarel

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 01:09 PM

Penalizing for turn-ins is a better idea.

#40 Guest_lothos_*

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 01:34 PM

I don't like the idea of hidden/random rewards. I dont want to go into CPK without knowing exactly what I will get in return.

#41 Solus

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 04:33 PM

A concern about hidden rewards...
For a difficult quest, it is sometimes insentive to do the quest instead of turning it in once you notice it will be hard/have bad repops.
Also, what of people who are able to memorize rewards? The people who can do this and turn in the low rewarding quests... (if the idea was to avoid people who quest like that)

#42 Bortaz

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 06:23 PM

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100 4 Posted: 11-22-2003 02:54 pm Post subject: Re: Rewards

Hide the rewards, and make them random (based on a low/high limit for the level of the quest).



#43 Guest_asteroth_*

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Posted 24 November 2003 - 06:03 AM

Vassago:
Hiding the rewards is a good idea...



#44 Guest_asteroth_*

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Posted 24 November 2003 - 06:06 AM

Errr, that was a bad post, should have mentioned that Vassago did not metion that random rewards was a good idea.

#45 Disorray

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Posted 24 November 2003 - 06:16 AM

The quests i turn in are the ones that arnt worth my time, like a 4 pracer that all 6 of the steps for are in pk and next to areas that are cpk sorry not worth my time to go up there and risk getting cpked for 4 pracs. or the ones that are 3 or 4 pracers and require me to run to three differnt cities to complete sorry once again not worth my time i could understand 3 to 4 pracs if the cities where on the same land mass but there not run to sigil run to xav and run to arcane is not worth 3 to 4 pracs.



You are questing to please your questmaster into giving you rewards, not using the questmaster - HES the one in controls

hiding and randomizing is a good idea, but with limits. ie: 5-6 for second class, 6-8 for third, 8-9 for 4thclassers, 10-12 for archon

#46 Bortaz

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Posted 24 November 2003 - 07:16 PM

Errr, that was a bad post, should have mentioned that Vassago did not metion that random rewards was a good idea.



There would be no point in having hidden rewards if they are not random. Anyone with half a brain stem could make logs of what the quest rewards were, after doing the quest a single time.

Then, we're right back where we started, with people declining quests because of the rewards. (Even though they had to check their log (or memory) to see what the rewards are.)

#47 Christof

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Posted 25 November 2003 - 01:08 AM

No, hiding rewards is a bad thing. I guess you don't realize how many quests aren't worth the time or effort to complete. Yes, I turn in alot of quests because I feel its not worth it. There are other quests out there with similar goals, and better rewards. My time is valuable. What would be nice is an overhaul of the existing quests.

#48 Censored

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Posted 25 November 2003 - 01:29 AM

How's about we just leave well enough, alone.
oh

Penalizing for turn-ins is a better idea.


No, no it isn't.

#49 Unbeliever

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Posted 25 November 2003 - 07:23 PM

I guess you don't realize how many quests aren't worth the time or effort to complete. Yes, I turn in alot of quests because I feel its not worth it. There are other quests out there with similar goals, and better rewards. My time is valuable.



Hey pal, deal with it! Your time is valuable...i mean seriously. You will quest, and you will like it.

#50 Bortaz

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Posted 25 November 2003 - 09:01 PM

My time is valuable. What would be nice is an overhaul of the existing quests.



Ha ha. When someone spends 18 hours a day on the mud like you do, Christof, I don't think you can really say your "time is valuable".