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Council of Saints


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#51 Salvo

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 06:08 PM

I salute the formation of such a Council! I think that such organization within the game could only advance the playing levels. Instead of complaining, attacking, disrupting...those who feel threatened, for whatever reason, should set about forming their own system of alliances!

#52 Goatleaf

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 07:44 PM

I agree with Moostafa, both sides are crap. I mean, outlaws are like "You are meeean banning us from a SAINT-ONLY chat room" which makes no sense at all. And it's not like outlaws are never mean. You say as if all outlaws were helpful, good people who just PK cause it's fun. Not all outlaws are jovial people who will help you, get over it. And I mean Nalithien, your position of "I Hate all outlaws" is crap. A lot of outlaws i've seen are total jerks and probably should be banned from the room. But banning people like Skitari who come in and try to give any kind of opinion and aren't bad at all is just being a jerk. And the fact is, whether you like it or not. Saints IN GENERAL are weaker than outlaws. This doesn't mean some saints can't beat some outlaws. But look at the stats of your clan, they aren't exactly sparkling, I won't post them but yea, it's just being ignorant to not accept help from friendly outlaws who wish to help you, not hurt you. And how do you know half the people aren't alts who are listening in anyway. Tell IS the only secure way of organizing stuff, bottom line. :| Good Luck

#53 Guest_lothos_*

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 07:55 PM

I'm neutral, nobody wants me :(

#54 Katran

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:17 PM

I went into #saint earlier today. All the bans have been removed. (Except Ascent!) Eriana and a few other members of this "council" were there, so I took the opportunity to ask a few questions. What I personally got out of their answers can be summarised in 4 points:

1) Nalithien's extreme anti-outlaw views in no way represent the feelings of the entire group.
2) The group does not focus on killing outlaws or players who PK unfairly. It does not focus on getting its members through dangerous PK areas. It does not focus on anything PK-related at all.
3) #saint is merely "a relay channel for nice people". These nice people can choose to help each other or PK other people, but that's not what defines the group.
4) #saint could be called #bloop or #poop or #flurgh or #aalhulisaufasdg. It really wouldn't make a difference. Not all the users of this chat are saints and none of them are against all non-saints. And since it's really not about saints anymore, why not change the chat room name? They're giving a lot of people the wrong impression.

:(


#55 Guest_tithrus_*

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:28 PM

Can't. Tis a permanent room. I am sure with the right amount of pursuasion an Imm could do it...but who wants do deal with the paperwork.

#56 Sojourner

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:36 PM

Damn.

Well, I'm also "in" the council, but I took three days away from MM and HOLY COW. The image/concept of this group has been distorted and maligned in soooo many ways, not all of which are outside sources.

It was never a "kill outlaws" channel. I roleplay an Outlaw Hunter (if you've ever seen my website, you know what I'm talking about) but it isn't born out of any hatred. I do that for two reasons: First, outlaws irritate me when they kill my clanmates and disrupt my questing, as well as being what I consider open targets (namely, willing combatants). Second, as someone mentioned, I like to PK but can't stand the death timer.

The channel was created to simply provide a way to share information amoungst people who weren't actively hunting others. Examples would include warning people if an outlaw (or anyone) was camping a quest area to PK people (Avarice, ToA, vopsy TS, etc.). We did organize a few events, such as PG runs, but I don't think the group was really as large as people are making it out to be. It was more like a core of certain people, with others who dropped in from time to time. Regular members probably numbered somewhere around 10-12.

But still, I have found this thread and the views expressed in it both reaffirming, and disturbing. I agree with Drysten almost completely. I find however, that many of the people arrayed against this group are EXACTLY the sort of people that Nalithien choose to form his clan to hunt. They are insensitive to others, and that seems to be the main criterion for that certain sect of outlaws that give all of them a bad rap.

I think this thread shows that as in all things, agreement in any group is hard. The "council" (why we got this name, I don't know) is a good example of how hard it is to keep a group together. At least in #Saint there isn't the vulgar language or ego contests that run rampant in most places (Sigil, Archon Talk, etc.). I'll be staying in #Saint in hopes that it can remain the source of good conversation that it has been.

Well, thanks for tuning in.

(Oh sorry for banning you Nightshade, it was the rule at the time, and I don't get to make the rules.) ;)

#57 Mutiny

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:50 PM

well personally nalithien all of this is coz u got pked buy sum1 and took it then wrong way hell man i h8 all saints that bitch coz u pk them its pathetic if ur in pk u get pked and they ask u why the hell u do that or u had to do it on a quest well thats wat pkers so if u saints dont like it u should do sumthing about it :evil:

#58 Guest_nicias_*

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:50 PM

Could all the people in the council of saints have the same title so we know who you are?

Maybe all of you could have the same symbol in your title like a white s or something?

You might want to have a SS shaped like lightning bolts or something like that just so we can recognize you.

#59 Durova

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 08:52 PM

Let's not make mountains out of molehills. There are people who play this game in spite of PK and not because of it. I'm supportive of them and I help new players. It makes the game more fun for a lot of people and strengthens the playerbase.

#60 Nalithien

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 09:18 PM

I would like to respond to some of the multiple accusations being hurled my way. Let me copy and paste things from these Council posts on this board -

1. 1) Nalithien's extreme anti-outlaw views in no way represent the feelings of the entire group. - Katran

I'm not speaking for Eriana or the Council when I say this, I'm speaking solely for myself. - Nalithien

Umm, duh?

2. But banning people like Skitari who come in and try to give any kind of opinion and aren't bad at all is just being a jerk. - Goatleaf

*I* did not ban Skitari, Eriana did. And more specifically, Eriana banned Kitnari, his alt. So I guess Eriana is a jerk.

3. and Nalithien just assumed because of what pkzone.org said, that he was some kind of newbie killer. Get real man! In a court of law, that would be the most invalid evidence ever - Unbeliever

Your absolutely wrong. A person's past criminal record is absolutely admissable in a court of law to establish credibility.
Also, anyone can go to pkzone.org and look up Skitari's pk record and see for themselves what kind of pk activity he's had. I was merely discrediting his statement that he's not a newbie killer by pointing out the number of lowbies he's killed this past month.

4. What I did 2-3 years ago still carries with me. I used to do that bull crap. I do not any more - Skitari

Again, go to www.pkzone.org and see for yourself. It's not my website, I didn't post those records there.

So go ahead and use me as a scapegoat if you will. Earlier I logged into *SAINT* chat and saw 3 Outlaws and 2 Saints. Congratulations on a fine Saint Council.

#61 Guest_skitari_*

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 10:01 PM

Eriana banned me because of you too Nal. Dont act as if you didnt play a role. I was trying to help you guys out. I was trying to show you that not all outlaws are as bad as you'd like to think.

And if those "NEWBIES" are going to be in the Maldra's Keep then to me they are not newbies at all. They know the risk. If they ask me to not pk them, I probably wont. I dont even have to defend myself either because I am in the right either way.

And when someone goes and offers help you usually dont act arrogant and throw things in their face Nal. Just because I pked "NEWBIES" doesnt mean I do it to every single one that crosses my path.

#62 Sojourner

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 11:43 PM

Ok, I have to give Skitari some credit here. Given that I didn't (probably still don't) know him very well, talking to him in #Saint was a nice and refreshing reminder that not all people who are outlaws have to act like jerks.

Thanks for that Skit.

I'd probably still PK you if I had the chance though. :D I know you've tried to get me in the past. ;)

#63 Katran

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 12:04 AM

Nalithien: I never accused you of falsely representing the group. I said that not everyone who uses #saints thinks like you do, so don't everyone just dismiss all of them at once.

You were just looking for more points to argue. ;]

:(


#64 Guest_lockett_*

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 04:38 AM

Why all the bother? It's just a chat room for crying out loud ......*yawn*

#65 Guest_tithrus_*

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 08:17 AM

Well yes, now its more of a chat room than anything else here. People can come and go as they please and be free of criticism. That is...unless things have changed in the nine hours I have been away from it :P
As Durova said, this entire thing has brought more people to the room then ever before.

#66 Hinotori

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Posted 03 January 2004 - 05:29 PM

I have been away from the message boards for some time now. However, this thread has caught my attention and given me the motivation to reply. Some of the accusations thrown out here are not only malicious, but incredibly ignorantly so.

Nicias:

Could all the people in the council of saints have the same title so we know who you are?

Maybe all of you could have the same symbol in your title like a white s or something?

You might want to have a SS shaped like lightning bolts or something like that just so we can recognize you.



I can't believe this. This is not an act of "prejudice." ALL GROUPS that are defined by certain guidelines practice a form of discrimination BY DEFINITION. Otherwise, there'd be no point in differentiating one group from another. If one forms a chess club that only wanted experienced members, is that person being unfair? Likewise, if a clan decides to be all saints, is THAT unfair? Everyone has the RIGHT to form groups of like minded individuals. It's in the Constitution. Look it up. Groups by nature are discriminatory. Look that up too. I'm not saying MM is based on U.S. law- I'm just saying there's a darn good reason it's in there.

Ok. That being settled.

What is the point of the saint channel... I personally would have liked to ban all outlaws from the channel. Note: I am NOT a moderator. Personal opinion. This does NOT mean I hate all outlaws. One of my best friends in game is an outlaw in a pk clan. I'm not saying infiltration is impossible. Nor am I saying it's even unlikely. However, I think it is quite conceivable that MOST of the time, outlaws wouldn't have the time to listen to everything we say. After all, the saint channel isn't JUST about going to PG everyday or even CTF matches. The Saint channel is often a place of conversation. For outlaws to truly get the benefit of infiltration, they'd have to sit through a lot of stuff when they have other things to do, and easier marks to kill.

That being said, the question still stands, what is the point now? I think, in time, outlaws will really lose interest in the channel regardless of whether they're allowed in or not. For the reasons above. And then the saint channel will be an effective tool. EVEN if this never happens, it can always be a place where like-minded individuals (opposed to PKing innocents) can converse. Consider it a topical chat room.

Once again these are all personal opinions, some of which are not even applicable since the change. But I felt they needed to be said.

#67 Lonny

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 08:50 PM

HOly Jeebus in a nightgown...

I leave the state for a week and all hell breaks loose.

Eriana, still got my email? Mind filling me in?

Durova, how about you?


cripes...
Lonny

#68 Guest_aude_*

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 09:18 PM

Oh god we almost had it dead.................dang it Lonny........... :| :D

#69 Caladar

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Posted 04 January 2004 - 11:21 PM

Chat Relay Outlaw


*CPK's all the newbies on your council*

#70 Guest_ton_*

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 05:10 PM

I know Im a little slow on this and I dont want to stir this up again... but I was at one point in time in Clan 118 Nalithiens clan and I went about my way hating outlaws but when I left 118 I went and joined clan 103 which at the time had many outlaws including Baily... now Baily is no longer an Outlaw but when he was he was one of the nicest players around always willing to help I mean hist title King of Newbs come on does that seem like a threatening Outlaw to you? I have since been in several clans with outlaws including owning one on an alt... Outlaw are most definitely not all bad and if certain people dont realize this they should quit playing and do some growing up first.

#71 Asterix

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Posted 05 January 2004 - 05:30 PM

Nalithien has a Red stick up his a$$, That's why he doesn't like them

#72 Apostasy

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Posted 07 January 2004 - 07:18 AM

ppl that cpk and go as far as to sac other players eq or even dare ask real life money for it to give it back are pure evil and show a reflection of how they are in real live and are able to kill there as well.


I'm sorry to say this Haley, but that is one of the MOST IDIOTIC things I've ever heard a sober person say.
If that was true, even in the slightest, you just called yourself a murderer in a way. I saw the log on pkzone where you turned Hero, so I doubt it says You have killed 0 creatures and 0 players in your score. I remember when my alt was in Sanguine with you, you didn't go into conniptions while leveling in Diocletian, killing children and animals.

Just because a line of text meant to be Apostasy and a line of text meant to be Haley 'fight', and one dies to the other, doesn't make the person controlling that text an evil murderer in real life, even if they ask for $25 for your uber gear back.

I'm an extremely nice guy in real life. Just because I typed 'k sparrow' 750 times, and 'bs Seijiro' twice back in the day(Those experiences were fun ones though!) does not mean I am Jeffery Dahmer, or Slobadon Milosevich, or Saddam Hussein.

#73 Maldrak

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 11:16 AM

This naive episode amused me.

#74 Blackx

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 03:19 PM

yes bring back the council of people who refused to let innocent folks into their chat room!

#75 Nalithien

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 04:06 PM

Lol, way to beat a dead horse :P The Council of Saints was a kick-ass idea that was great fun while it lasted. The only reason it fell apart was because Eriana didn't have the balls to stand up to the people that weren't invited. She let all the idiot Outlaws in, and then wondered why it fell apart. And you know what? I haven't seen anything even remotely this fun being put together by the players since this died. So you idiots pretty much killed the only exciting thing to happen to MM in years. Way to go. If I had been running the Council, it would still be around and going strong because none of you retards would be allowed in to destroy it.