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Questing is overpowered


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#51 Guest_dricks_*

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 12:06 AM

Lol thats obviously wrong, would you like me to start posting all the changed quests? If you havnt Aethyn, then someone else did.

#52 Ciali

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 12:10 AM

I honestly haven't seen any of the quests that I'm referring to changed yet. My response, and I'm sure many others as well, were more in response to the expressed intention to change them (and hoping that the changes don't go too far in the other direction).

#53 Veerat

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 07:31 AM

From Trajan

Quest Templeton at level 60 and almost ALL of your quests are 2nd class reward quests. As the thread by Zakainen proved a while back.



And at level 60 the cost to train skills also goes up unless I'm the only person in the game that this happened to.

From Solus

Actually, its quite true. Even in second class, my Half-Elf pays 1 practice per % on some skills.



Solus I don't have a single skill in second class that still costs 1%, I don't know if that's due to my race, class or what but it sure sounds like Half-Elf is the way to go then.


Trajan if you feel that Archons deserve better rewards then maybe that is what you should be pushing for rather than trying to reduce things that don't need to be reduced. Furthermore, if people want to camp, let them camp. It doesn't affect you nor does it harm the game...

#54 Haley

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 08:17 AM

I don't see how? You quest and quest and quest to get to where? Archon eventually



wrong , i'll never archon simply cus i don't have the time and patience to do doa , and i don't think archon is worth the trouble , as hero i can do much more with much more freedom , and with me there a handfull more hero's who you will never see archon in your life , yet they all love to quest

#55 Guest_lothpost_*

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 08:52 AM

I have access to the most comprehensive information on quests of anyone, probably more than this Aethyn. You can complain all you want about quest rewards, but questing is total crap. The only way to really enjoy this game in all its splendor is to quest your ass off for months on end. 5pp per quest in first class for 1000 quests isn't enough to turn it into a 2-month ordeal. It's barely enough to train your skills from two classes. Even then it will take a very very long time to complete 1000 quests.

I wish more people would max. I wish more people would join PK clans. I wish more people would set foot in PK without a form of 9 and 5000 smoke bombs. The longer it takes players to develop their characters to the point where they feel comfortable doing this, the less fun the rest of us have. Being a maxed character is not a members only club, it's like graduating from high school or college and knowing that you have moved on to another phase of your development. It's a good thing, not something to be stunted. Yes, there are some gifted players who do very well without a lot of quests, but they only do well against the less skilled players... And they can't do all of the non-PK activities without being at a much higher risk than those who have maxed. In other words, they don't have the same enjoyment that maxed players do.

I used to believe that the quests were over-rewarding, but I don't think that any more. When I look at how long it took me to get everything necessary trained, I have to say how insane it was. Years of tedious questing does NOT make players stay around any longer... It turns them into non-players because they are so used to doing what amounts to nothing. I want more players, not idlers. Questing makes idlers. We're turning into more of a chat room than a Multi User Dungeon.

At the time of this writing, this is the zone summary:
.------------------------.
|     Player Summary     |
|        Arena: 0        |
|       At Sea: 0        |
|       Castle: 11       |
|     Clanhall: 9        |
|      Dungeon: 9        |
|         Home: 10       |
|          Inn: 0        |
|         Isle: 0        |
|         Keep: 7        |
|         None: 6        |
|       Office: 0        |
|       Planar: 0        |
|       Social: 40       |
|      Suburbs: 1        |
|        Tower: 0        |
|        Towne: 59       |
|  Underground: 5        |
|   Underwater: 0        |
|        Wilds: 11       |
`------------------------'


So we have 11 people in "Castle", probably questing. 40 in social, idling or questing. 19 in halls or homes, most of which are probably idling. Many of those in towne are probably questing. Over half the players online are either idling or questing. That sucks.

Think of questing like those damn liberal arts classes you have to take in college. Believe it or not, sometimes the junk you learn does come in handy. It's something you need to do to be "well-rounded", but you won't be having much fun if you are a professional quester.

Don't screw with the quests.

-L

#56 Durova

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 09:52 AM

Actually Trajan, in most roleplaying games the finite rewards reduce as characters grow. That's because skills and spells develop synergies: third attack plus web is much more powerful than either alone. Level bonuses reflect this in MM. This is a mature game with increasing numbers of players becoming maxed archons. We don't need to increase the pace of archons running out of goals.

I'd suggest a twofold solution: develop more alternatives to questing (I've proposed a few of these in old threads) and develop a new set of challenges for archons.

#57 Guest_phare_*

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 09:56 AM

Thats exactly what Ive been trying to say. If your a first class rogue you get bash and 2nd attack at lvl 60. It costs 5 practices each.

5x75= 375x2 = 750 practices to train them both.

750/4= Thats around 150 quests depending on how many quests you do over 4 practices.

750/3 Thats around 250 quests depending on how many quests you do over 4 practices.

See alot of you dont like players camping or what not. But i will camp as long as i have to, to train my skills and spells from that certain class. Not all of them, but the essentials. Unbeleiver thinks archons should be rewarded more. But why? Why should higher classes be rewarded alot more than lower classes when they have to train there things just as expensive.

The number one reason you have class campers is because they want to max that class. And if alot of peoples goal is to become completly maxed, then whats so wrong with that? Maybe some people dont want to hurry to archon and spent two years maxing.

Look at Grandpa and Solus. Solus was maxed at lvl 230(from what i remember) because he camped 120 training all his skills/spells and saving up for next class. People take different approaches.

And about the quest changes, from what Ive been noticing, its been in Rune/New rigel. Mostly new rigel, i dont quest in telle or temp. Im seeing alot quests that i did last year multiple times being lowered, and all that does it make me wait even more and make me idle like lothos said. But if it continues i guess i will have to lower myself to 3 practices each.

-Dricks/Yien/WHoever-

Thanks for banning me again.

#58 Solus

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 04:57 PM

Solus I don't have a single skill in second class that still costs 1%, I don't know if that's due to my race, class or what but it sure sounds like Half-Elf is the way to go then.


Rather, its the skill.

Why should higher classes be rewarded alot more than lower classes when they have to train there things just as expensive.


Harder quests. (Usually) And to encourage a player to want to multi, rather than camping forever and doing the easier quests.

The number one reason you have class campers is because they want to max that class.


Or to max the next class. People tend to like saving 1000 or so practices up for multi.

Solus was maxed at lvl 230


Hmm...that depends how you mean maxed...Aside from my archon skills/spells, I trained each of them as I got them, so skill wise, Solus was a maxed hero. His HP and SP were close to maxed, but they didn't reach 2000...(Partically because I was going to use archon levels to hp max my stats.)
Despite my 6000+ quests, Solus has yet to max...Once I get my next archon level, I'll finally break 2000 sp...

But I am someone who trains even useless skills and spells, thus I have yet to reach the end. I see it as my fault I have yet to max...

--

...But maybe I have been looking at it wrong...I grew up on 3-4 practice quests; as such, I considered them to be good rewards and thought they were fair. However, I notice the time it is taking for my Matanzae to train counterspell at 3 practices per %. (Recieving rewards 2-5 practices in Sigil) If every classes were raised accordingly, it might not be bad...

Although I like how long it takes to max, for it gives players who intend to play for a long time something to do. Besides, players are probably not intended to be a master at everything. Instead, they are probably supposed to use team work to make up for their weakpoints.

#59 Tyben

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 08:16 PM

New Rigel got so bad at one point with over rewarding easy quests it looked like an Immortal was intentionally abusing their power and adding quests to make it easier for their alt. (I'm not saying they were, but this is how bad it looked.)

I believe that was caused by an out of control quest submitter. Hence why quest submissions were more closely looked at.

She's also the only quest master who sends level 60s into CPK.

She's actually not.

in most roleplaying games the finite rewards reduce as characters grow.

I disagree, while it may be harder to obtain the rewards, the rewards are certainly better. Therefore people get infrequent, but better rewards.

#60 Guest_phare_*

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 08:32 PM

Although I like how long it takes to max, for it gives players who intend to play for a long time something to do. Besides, players are probably not intended to be a master at everything. Instead, they are probably supposed to use team work to make up for their weakpoints.



Yeah your right. But there are certain essential skills like 2nd/3rd attack, bash, dodge, parry. Which all cost 4 or more practices beyond 1st class. I dont mind first class being lowered because they have less to train (unless they wait untill 60, then your screwed) but the quests im seeing are lvls 60-120 which affect 2nd classers.

Well I might have been wrong, but I remember you saying something in the clan log before you hit hero that you were maxed.

#61 Ciali

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Posted 06 March 2005 - 11:58 PM

There are some skills/spells in some classes that you don't even get until level 60.

#62 Nightshade

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Posted 07 March 2005 - 01:39 PM

My only point was that first class templeton quests should not give better rewards than archon quests in very other town.