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reward disparity...


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#126 Chyribdus

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 03:38 AM

After spending nearly an hour reading through all of this thread to gather all the ideas and having seen other threads with ideas of other ways of getting practices, the biggest problem seems to be the lack of rewards in quests for higher levels. The "sliding reward scale" is an idea that holds at least some merit since, with earlier classes, theres enough questers to keep these in check, and in later classes, it makes questing to be slightly less of a tedium since you dont have to do AS many to max a skill or increase a stat. Another thing to be looked at is the fact that certain quest masters give such low rewards in comparison to others (vendredi giving 1-3 pracs where templeton gives 4-7) as well as some quest masters requiring characters to kill mobs that are 2 classes above their current level.

Other ideas i have seen come and go over time include the bounty hunting, group quests, either multiple level (ie 1 1st classer, 1 2nd classer, 1 3rd, 1 4th, and 1 archon) or just a form of the same class range, and repeatable miniquests, like tavern of boars (which gives crap rewards for only being able to be completed once per reboot).

Personally, i dont believe that lowering rewards is the way to stop class camping, but rather to increase rewards for later classes and to actually balance the quests. For a 1st classer to have to travel all around the world should have good rewards (5-6 pp) where an archon should have it expected of them. Also, to stop class camping, implement a max for how many pp and qp you can actually stock up each class, maybe 2k for 1st class, 4k for 2nd, etc etc for pp and 28k 1st, 42k 2nd, etc for qp. The third way of stopping class camping is lowering the quest limit per class to 500 1st, 1500 2nd, 3k 3rd, 4500 4th, and no limit to archons. The final way of stopping camping is to put a limit on how much you can use the additional ways of getting practices per class. An example would be with bounty hunting, where if you get 10 pp per kill, you can do 100 per class increasing in increments of 50.

It has been said before in this thread that to make a decent character, you need certain skills maxed, such as web, second attack, third attack, curse, faerie fire, throwing, etc (not refering to just killing npc's) and that you have to quest a ridiculous amount to max them. I hate to say it, but it is true to an extent. I have just under 500 quests right now and its hurting me that i didnt stock up pp before i multi'd to take care of skills like herbalism, archery, fast healing, and meditation. The only way of fixing this is to quest even more. It will take me approximately 3-400 quests to practice everything i need for this class and the marks to give me the pracs i need for my few 4th class skills. This is all because of the higher rewards 1st and 2nd class, otherwise i would have near 1,000 quests for the same results that i'm at right now and need another 1,000 quests to finish what i need for this class.

The last issue is marks. There are at least 5 marks that i know of that rely on how many quests you have done and when you do them. One of them is for not questing enough before archon, and the other 4 are for 100 quests in 1st class, hitting 350 in 2nd 600 in 3rd and 1k in 4th. There are 5 marks that cannot be considered in any way in the claim that marks can be used instead of tons of questing for enough pp to properly create your character.

#127 Solus

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 05:46 AM

The third way of stopping class camping is lowering the quest limit per class to 500 1st, 1500 2nd, 3k 3rd, 4500 4th, and no limit to archons.


As is, quest limits can ruin ones enjoyment of the game. I've had to multi several of my alts because of the quest limits - and in doing so, I began to play a bit less. (I don't always want to spend a long time doing quests - I liked being able to hop on an alt and casually do a few short quests.)

#128 Sabu

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 02:57 PM

(From Chyribdus):
The last issue is marks. There are at least 5 marks that i know of that rely on how many quests you have done and when you do them. One of them is for not questing enough before archon, and the other 4 are for 100 quests in 1st class, hitting 350 in 2nd 600 in 3rd and 1k in 4th. There are 5 marks that cannot be considered in any way in the claim that marks can be used instead of tons of questing for enough pp to properly create your character.



You mean 4 marks.

#129 Minotorious

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 03:16 PM

(From Solus):

The third way of stopping class camping is lowering the quest limit per class to 500 1st, 1500 2nd, 3k 3rd, 4500 4th, and no limit to archons.


As is, quest limits can ruin ones enjoyment of the game. I've had to multi several of my alts because of the quest limits - and in doing so, I began to play a bit less. (I don't always want to spend a long time doing quests - I liked being able to hop on an alt and casually do a few short quests.)



if you hit any limit other than 60 routinely, you have problems.

#130 Karynn

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 03:44 PM

(From Sabu):

(From Chyribdus):
There are at least 5 marks that i know of that rely on how many quests you have done



You mean 4 marks.



There are 5. One each per first, second, third and fourth class for completeing x number of quests in each class; then a fifth that is given to archons with a low amount of quests.

#131 Minotorious

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 03:58 PM

(From Karynn):

(From Sabu):

(From Chyribdus):
There are at least 5 marks that i know of that rely on how many quests you have done



You mean 4 marks.



There are 5. One each per first, second, third and fourth class for completeing x number of quests in each class; then a fifth that is given to archons with a low amount of quests.



except the fifth relies on how few quests you have done

#132 Antyrr

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 06:39 PM

which is still reliant on how many quests you have done.

#133 Chyribdus

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 11:21 PM

The whole point of that comment was that it was said that you could just get marks instead of questing, but, that there are also marks that require questing to get.

#134 Sabu

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 06:21 AM

Do you guys rely blindly on everything that you see on another website? That's not how you get that fifth mark.

#135 Sabu

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Posted 16 May 2007 - 06:21 AM

Disclaimer:

Unless it's been changed recently.

#136 Chyribdus

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 11:56 PM

This quest is called 'Vospire Tourist Board', for Adventurers levels 90 to 150.
Lord Vendredi is the master in charge of this quest.
Description of Vospire Tourist Board:
While the city of Sigil is a fine place for adventurers of all levels to
visit, it is not the only town on our fine continent.  Vospire, a
well-established community to the northwest, is quite an interesting place. 
However, the path there leads through steep mountain peaks, and the city
itself is rife with danger.  These problems are not enough to stop the many
people who travel there every year, seeking to visit the unique shops and
popular landmarks that Vospire is famous for.  Thanks to a generous grant
from the Vospire tourist board, we have begun encouraging adventurers to
journey up the slopes of Mount Vesuvius and get to know the town a little
better.  While learning more about Vospire is a reward in itself, you can
look forward to additional payment upon your return.  
Upon successful completion of this quest you can receive up
to 24 quest points, 2 practice points, 22000 experience points, and 2300 gold pieces.
You have 160 minutes remaining to complete this quest.
Vospire Tourist Board consists of:
Phase 1: Journey to Vospire Magical Inventory.
Phase 2: Journey to Pleasure Reading Section.
Phase 3: Journey to A Long Drawbridge.
Phase 4: Journey to Marle's Magical Potions.
Phase 5: Visit the Great Elder.


here is a perfect example of ridiculously low rewards for higher class quests. there is absolutely no reason for a quest to be for a 3rd classer and still be only worth 24 quest points and 2 practice points. either the quest needs something added to it to raise the rewards or it needs to be removed completely from the quest lists.

#137 Duende

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:40 AM

Vendredi gave a quest with low rewards? I suggest you get used to it. His quests are exceptional for being less-rewarding and easier than other questmasters'. If you don't like it, you should quest elsewhere, or write your own quests, or both. Not all questmasters should be the same. Vendredi should maintain his role as the master for quests when you only have a few minutes to spare.

#138 Chyribdus

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 03:55 AM

low rewards i can understand (and vendredi has a bunch of higher rewarding 3rd class quests) but low rewards for a 3rd class quest is 4 pp, maybe 3 if you really want to push it for quests that no one in their right mind would do. 2 pp is insane. Even if i was trying to do a quest that will only take a few minutes, i still wouldnt take a quest with THAT low of rewards. As to you saying i should quest somewhere else, i have. all the qms have so many low rewarding quests that it takes 2-3 hours to get 2 quests that are worth the time it takes to do. i get 2-3 pp from all of them so frequently its obsurd.

#139 Shaang

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 09:53 AM

Questing templeton/tellerium third class, i get 5-8 without fail with an occasional 4 prac quest; all of these are relatively easy, including the atlantis ones which have especially nice rewards.

#140 Karynn

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:15 AM

(From Chyribdus):

Upon successful completion of this quest you can receive up
to 24 quest points, 2 practice points, 22000 experience points, and 2300 gold pieces.
You have 160 minutes remaining to complete this quest.


here is a perfect example of ridiculously low rewards for higher class quests. there is absolutely no reason for a quest to be for a 3rd classer and still be only worth 24 quest points and 2 practice points. either the quest needs something added to it to raise the rewards or it needs to be removed completely from the quest lists.



As has been established elsewhere on these boards, everyone is different and likes different kinds of quests. I doubt quests will be removed simply because YOU don

#141 Chyribdus

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 07:03 PM

I admit, i am a bit picky on my quests, but trying to put words in my mouth is different. It isnt that i dont want to be bothered with such a low reward quest, its a point, along with the one you showed, that the rewards for the later classes need to be adjusted up along with the rewards for the earlier classes being adjusted down. there shouldnt be a 3rd class quest worth 2 pp and there shouldnt be an archon quest worth 3 pp. Add a phase or two to them to make them worth a little more and increase the rewards or get rid of them. when you can camp 2nd class and get more pracs in 1k quests than you do in 3rd or 4th class, then there is something needing to be adjusted. these quests just show a little more of what that something is.

#142 Solus

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 09:21 PM

Some people camp due to the length of the quest rather because of the rewards...

#143 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 12:14 AM

People class camp for several reasons..

1. Some people are role players and as such like to work on all there skills, a good tradesmen wouldn't learn to use his saw but not his hammer why would a ranger learn herbalism but not summon mount for example.

2. Some people don't want to do every skill/spell but want to do enough to have a variety of options available for the variety of situations that may arise. For example you want a fire spell for a mino, a frost or ice for a dracon ect. You want to have a web or sorts, a blind and cure blind (or cb pot atleast) want a heal or cure for hp - cures for curses, dieases and poison. If you are a average player you want a few weapons to choose from so that when you run into a mob that is slash resistant or bash resistant or pierce resistant you have options availbale. You want to do all your defenses since some dont work mounted, or with second defense, some work vs spells ect.

3. Some players just want to be able to compete vs players who have been around for 8-12 years, and it is not an unreasonable expectation given that the special rewards are in PK areas (for example a trunk)

4. Some players are alts, and just want to quest to fill in time gaps when waiting for runs, or friends to log on. Or maybe they want some extra QP for some items whether for use or to sell its a good way to do it.

5. Some players are PKers and want to max out all the handy skills and spells for Pking and stas to match the high level archons. So they camp low level save up as much as they can to get them through 3rd and 4th class when some skills cost 4-6 practice per %.

Last but not least

6. Some people in this game (more so than not i have come to learn) really do have OCD so its a compulsion to practice every skill and max every stat. That is there choice, why ridicule them for being who they are?


It is a choice to play this way and whether you choose to play this way or not is a personal decision - i don't understand why anyone a player or an immortal would feel the need to slash quest rewards on any quest - so what if some quests are over rewarding they make up for the under rewarding ones that are in the game.

The game already limits how many quests people can do in a set, and in at least 1st(1000) and 2nd class (5000) so why do you feel the need to limit them more by slashing rewards?

If you wanna cry and boohoo someone is getting more practices than you cause they choose to quest on a continent that is secluded, with aggro mobs that see through invis, being sent to pk in FGK, being sent to ogre village every 10 minutes and where levelers constantly kill quest mobs why knock them down by slashing there rewards - you could have or can quest there too no need to take away from the game - try thinking of new positive things that could be added to make your play more fun instead of thinking of ways to make class campers, or quest levelers lives harder.

#144 Solus

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 12:00 PM

It is a choice to play this way and whether you choose to play this way or not is a personal decision - i don't understand why anyone a player or an immortal would feel the need to slash quest rewards on any quest - so what if some quests are over rewarding they make up for the under rewarding ones that are in the game.


"Rewards being too high causes problems. If someone averages more rewards as a lowbie and then they multi only to recieve smaller rewards, they will regret multi-classing."

Also, since quests are so rewarding, it makes other methods of character development seem less rewarding in comparisson.

#145 Minotorious

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 12:35 PM

(From Solus):

It is a choice to play this way and whether you choose to play this way or not is a personal decision - i don't understand why anyone a player or an immortal would feel the need to slash quest rewards on any quest - so what if some quests are over rewarding they make up for the under rewarding ones that are in the game.


"Rewards being too high causes problems. If someone averages more rewards as a lowbie and then they multi only to recieve smaller rewards, they will regret multi-classing."

Also, since quests are so rewarding, it makes other methods of character development seem less rewarding in comparisson.



Lets review...

ways to get practices:

Quest...

or...

kill false face mobs
do crystal guild hunts
play sanctioned ctf
play sanctioned chess
jalur lumber camp
village of winton
tavern of the boars challenge arena
marks
several mobs from runs give pracs now
turn in hidebound compasses, or use it to go kill slaadi
vandy orbs
use an attraction, obsidian/golden tokens work out to quite a few pracs

#146 Asorewen

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:33 PM

play sanctioned chess



BWAHAHAAHAHAHA.

You're kidding, right?

#147 Veerat

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 10:23 AM

I couldn't agree more with Chyribdus on the "adjust the 1st/2nd class quests down a notch and adjust later class quests higher". I agree that Vendredi's quests should NOT be changed because that is Vendredi's nature, but at least add a phase or two so they are at least 4pp.

Camp all you want, but you shouldn't be rewarded with easy, relatively high-rewarding quests until you hit the 1000 quest limit. Or you could just lower the quest limit to 600 or something like that (although I'm not sure how that would affect a 1st class wizard since I've never played one...just throwing a number out there).

#148 Solus

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Posted 30 May 2007 - 04:26 PM

Again, I loathe the quest limit. Its hampered my enjoyment of the game and has caused me to play less. If my alts didn't hit the first and second class quest limits, I'd be more willing to play when I am not in the mood to play Solus.
I used to be able to casually quest with them, but now... :(

Lets not change the quest limits...