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Exciting Changes to Runs


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#1 Umlaut

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 08:51 PM

Hello everyone,

With the last reboot, we have implemented some new and exciting changes targetted at improving "runs".

The main improvements involve more equipment drops being shown only when the NPC is defeated, not before. This makes deters people from leaving the mob bare after executing a successful run, or simply aborting for the same reason, at least not intentionally. Additionally, if it turns out that a particular drop is very unlucky, the drop will be supplemented with various liquid rewards. Lastly, this reward is based on certain sliding scales aimed at automatically balancing run popularity. If a run is neglected, its "base reward" will automatically increase. The reverse applies for runs that are done too much.

So, go out there and do some runs, and have fun!

#2 Blitzen

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 09:08 PM

:clap:

#3 Ledatic

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 09:40 PM

but if everyone goes out and does the runs then the "base reward" will be lower!

NO ONE DO ANY RUNS!!! :D naw nice change :)

#4 Minotorious

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 09:41 PM

You take 155,312 gold coins. <3

#5 Scrooge

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Posted 30 April 2007 - 10:29 PM

The game has needed this since inception.

Thanks.

#6 Dupre

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 01:03 AM

I'm at half mast now

#7 Thornak

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 04:53 AM

Very nice change.

#8 Gunner

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 12:57 PM

It *COULD* be a good change if one thing about it doesn't hurt us...

Lastly, this reward is based on certain sliding scales aimed at automatically balancing run popularity. If a run is neglected, its "base reward" will automatically increase. The reverse applies for runs that are done too much.


This appears to read as the typical runs like Yourban, Vyst and Hotel Hello mobs won't have anything but the "liquid rewards" which is a bad thing since we need all the souls and cops to make huruks. Those mobs/runs are killed frequently which will make their drops go the reverse direction. Hopefully this won't become a problem, but I can see yourban not giving out any souls and cops yet again.

Is this what you're saying could happen?

#9 Umlaut

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 01:18 PM

At the moment these changes are entirely additive, they do not replace existing drops, nor have existing drops been tweaked down to accommodate this. The overall effect definitely makes most runs more lucrative than they were before. Additionally, whichever runs are the most neglected at the moment are the most lucrative, which should encourage some variety and fun.

However, it is and has been the case that the rarity of items is indeed automatically scaled in certain ways. This is necessary because it is simply impossible to predict and maintain certain values manually, especially given the changing face of Alyria and the whims of its inhabitants. This practice has been in place for quite a long time, and is in part what prompted this new system, because while the system that scales the drop rates of items is good at controlling items, it is inadequate at controlling runs as a whole and has been rather damaging in some cases. The new additions in part aim to rectify the downsides of the older, more specific system that is/was in place.

#10 Bloodsong

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 04:39 PM

*applauds*

#11 Blitzen

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 06:55 PM

after having experienced it myself now, this rocks! :clap:

#12 Dwarfius

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 10:11 PM

This is what I've noticed. While on my 8th camp of a now very low drop elemental hydra, my liquid rewards vanishes after 8 repops. Now you said that the more the run is done, the lower the rewards. In my case, I haven't gotten an elemental bracelet in the 8 repops at all, and I am forced to camp more and has to suffer from the lowered chance of getting the bracelet again plus less liquid rewards?

It's just an observation I made.

#13 Umlaut

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Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:00 PM

Yes, one of the things that can make the compensatory drop disappear almost entirely is camping the mob 20 times in a row. So, in your case, if you were specifically set on camping a run for a specific item, you will experience something like this. As mentioned earlier, the drop rate for any item can mutate automatically as well. It may seem cruel, but we set certain quotas for things that these automated systems are designed to enforce.

Although it will always remain possible (almost always) to obtain any specific item desired from any specific run, sometimes it may be easier to obtain it through other means, perhaps on the item market. In the future we may add some ways to help determine which runs are overstocked or understocked, giving players a nudge in the most rewarding direction, which will usually involve trying something they don't do very often!

This system is still subject to being adjusted, and one of the things that may need adjustment is how quickly that liquid drop rate responds.

On a side note, although this may not have been announced, the system that regulates the drop rate of items (not all items, though), has also been adjusted in the not too distance past to be less jumpy. Prior to several months ago, the drop rates for some items had been almost entirely zeroed out. But now, many of these same items may have high reduced rates instead, rather than being virtually impossible to obtain. However, the new system's main goal is to feel sorry for the player that gets the unlucky end of that system and make sure that people don't come away empty handed (at least much of the time)!

In the coming months, it is likely that these systems will continue to be fine tuned with an eye for balance but with the goal of optimizing the fun of being rewarded aspect of doing runs.

#14 Kritos

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 02:28 AM

Can people post some of the liquid rewards they've gotten for those of us not high enough level to go on any major runs?

#15 Antyrr

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 08:49 AM

will this affect lower level runs?

there should be a minimum liquid reward for some runs. if you're camping an ultra-rare item, not only is the occurance of the already low pop going to decrease because you're camping it, but you're also going to camp its liquid rewards to extinction too, entirely defeating the purpose of having supplementary liquid rewards in the first place. i mean, i guess it makes your time worth-while until you stop getting anything, but after that point... yeah.

on ultra-rare pops, the liquid rewards seem almost REPLACEMENTS more than supplements, considering how the system degrades both well before an item may feasibly pop.

#16 Umlaut

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 10:09 AM

This can and does apply to some lower level runs. However, most lower level "runs" (not just solitary NPCs) already have guaranteed rewards, often marks, and do not need the compensatory aspect of this system.

Actually, in many cases the liquid rewards are "replacements" in the sense that if you get a good drop, you're good to go already and don't need anything else. "Compensation" would be more accurate semantically. If you defeat Yourban and obtain one of the valuable pieces of equipment, you will not receive anything extra from this new system. If Yourban does not drop anything at all, you will probably receive quite a bit. However, if Yourban drops a scroll and a weapon, you'll receive something extra, but it won't be as much as if the previous case that would have otherwise left you entirely empty-handed.

The case you are describing of camping a single run for a rare item presents somewhat of a conflict of interest. That item is rare because it is intended to be so. While the compensatory system will give you the benefit of the doubt for a while, it will start to become annoyed and be gradually less generous in hopes that you will leave the run alone and try your luck elsewhere, perhaps reconsidering whether the item is really worth the uphill battle against intended rarity/value/supply to you.

#17 Nobadii

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 11:52 AM

Will the reward be affected if you loot the scroll or if the mob pops with the scroll? Yourban always has a weapon, and I can see people fragging the scrolls so they get better rewards.

#18 Nerion

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Posted 02 May 2007 - 01:35 PM

6000

#19 Umlaut

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 01:05 AM

That is a good observation about fraggable items. Currently, this may be an issue in a few places. We're still tweaking the system and this issue should be fixed soon.

#20 Nobadii

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 01:38 AM

Yay, I may have just ruined a really good thing.

#21 Umlaut

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 05:59 AM

Hm, also apparently there was a serious glitch we didn't notice while testing that caused the extra reward to not be handed out at all in many cases. It's been fixed now, so if you thought that the reward was a little dry, you might want to look again.

#22 Sotano

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 08:28 AM

This is a very, very good upgrade.

You might also consider using this principle for creatures that are commonly used when leveling.

Example:
Mobs that get a lot of leveler traffic get the normal exp. And, the mobs get tougher as more of them get wacked.

If a character chooses to level off of mobs that don't get a lot of "mindless slaughter" traffic, they get an EXP reward (sliding scale) as well as improved gold rewards (sliding scale).

For instance, the Cats are a common leveling area. *However*, the areas in and around the Queens are not. Over time, the EXP and gold valuation of these mobs goes up.

This would also make leveling in some of the more challenging underground areas more practical. Normally, one does not go after balrogs and fire trolls near Vir for leveling purposes. But if they "scaled up" over time, it could be worth it.

Thoughts?

Sotano

#23 Vassago

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 10:22 AM

They already should get a bonus off NPCs that don't get a lot of "mindless slaughter" traffic - the fact that their difficulty isn't augmented, for one.

#24 Vintara

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 10:45 AM

Your definition of bonus is off-kilter. It's not a bonus that something could be worse.

#25 Scrooge

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 12:56 PM

Sure it is, bonus applies to the difference. If there's a bonus, something else has to be worse, by definition.