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Second Class Quest Limit ??


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#26 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 06:03 PM

From Dragonburner

No, you're wrong, everyone should find a game thats tailored to their playstyle.




When I started playing MM 8 years or so ago, MM was tailored to my play style I could do as many quests per class as I wanted to do...

Why would an Immortal toggable setting for 1 alt of a player such as myself or Solus be a big deal, we could happily quest till our hair turned gray (or MM shut down) after already having put in the time to play as a hero and or archon thus already having explored and enjoyed (or not) other features of MM previously and maybe being bored of them....

#27 Jandir

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 06:52 PM

(From Elana):
When I started playing MM 8 years or so ago, MM was tailored to my play style I could do as many quests per class as I wanted to do...

Why would an Immortal toggable setting for 1 alt of a player such as myself or Solus be a big deal, we could happily quest till our hair turned gray (or MM shut down) after already having put in the time to play as a hero and or archon thus already having explored and enjoyed (or not) other features of MM previously and maybe being bored of them....



I agree, let's let Elana have her one alt that can quest to her heart's content using this imm togglable setting but let's have this ONE restriction to it. The alt that has this setting toggled is PERMANENTLY not allowed to enter PK (that's LPK, NPK, CPK, HCPK and Clan PK). This keeps those alts out of PK and keeps the game from being unbalanced. For the clan PK, they can't join PK clans and/or they are automatically frozen while in a PK clan.

If you can agree to that condition, then I think the PKers would be satisfied with letting you quest to your heart's content.

#28 Minotorious

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 07:13 PM

(From Elana):

From Dragonburner

As for your idiotic comparison between questing and pk. Pk does not give any advantage to your character, questing does.




Apparently you do not know what CPK is....then again anyone who thinks drows can go bard can't be very knowledgeable at all in the long run about this game...

Also how long were you 2nd class Dragonburner....

03/25/03 10:32 PM Dragonburner became a Psionic.

03/21/06 10:07 PM Dragonburner became a Shaman.


So you camped 120 for 3 years why don't you shut your mouth about others wanting to do the same????



Im not complaining about people wanting to class camp, I have class camped every char i've ever played, because I enjoy doing various rarely done miniquests/marks, which are typically a bit easier to accomplish at lower levels, than it is to get together a group of lazy ass archons.

I'm laughing at people who are complaining about the quest limit. 4500 quests is MORE THAN ENOUGH.

I have 930 total quests, so no, i didnt quest camp at 120 for years.

Also, i was inactive for over a year of my time at 2nd class.

#29 Minotorious

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 07:18 PM

(From Cantilenae):

(From Dragonburner):Pk does not give any advantage to your character, questing does.


8O Tell that to anyone who has ever been FGed. I can name several who make a reasonable living selling gear back to the lowbies they gank.

I won't speak to the quest limit, as I haven't hit it yet despite my time at 120. Why don't I multi? Because I'm still exploring all the things there are to explore at my level...and there's plenty I haven't done yet. Why the pressure to shove a person into a different style of play when they're enjoying what they are doing?

As for all you people who power-levelled, you might have the imms (Duende) on your side, but I for one am sick of Guides sending *me* tells to find out answers to newbie questions. Maybe if some of these archons hadn't botted through the lower classes they'd have a little game knowledge. :roll:



Good. Explore stuff. Do miniquests. I have no problem with anybody class camping to do that.

I class camped too, i didnt power level.

I've been a major proponent for people doing lower level miniquests and stuff, hence why im so open to helping people get started on them.

And regarding cpk, want to not get cpk'd? dont go into cpk.

If you get fg'd it is almost 100% assuredly your fault.

#30 Solus

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 07:45 PM

4500 quests is MORE THAN ENOUGH.


Thats your opinion. I've created characters that couldn't train their second class skills with that many quests, much less other things.

#31 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 07:49 PM

I agree, let's let Elana have her one alt that can quest to her heart's content using this imm togglable setting but let's have this ONE restriction to it. The alt that has this setting toggled is PERMANENTLY not allowed to enter PK (that's LPK, NPK, CPK, HCPK and Clan PK). This keeps those alts out of PK and keeps the game from being unbalanced. For the clan PK, they can't join PK clans and/or they are automatically frozen while in a PK clan.

If you can agree to that condition, then I think the PKers would be satisfied with letting you quest to your heart's content.



I have no problem with that restriction at all, not even the slightest hesitation to it.

#32 Cazzira

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:26 PM

If someone enjoys first or second class questing so much, just make another char and do it there? It sounds to me that a few people actually enjoy doing quests over the progression of a character. I think this falls into the category of whining for whining sakes.

#33 Minotorious

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:28 PM

(From Solus):

4500 quests is MORE THAN ENOUGH.


Thats your opinion. I've created characters that couldn't train their second class skills with that many quests, much less other things.



And i dont believe you.

4500 quests at 120, at the average of 5 pracs per quest, is 22500 pracs. + marks + levelling pracs + level betters.

I dont care if you're a pal/wizard(i think the highest total skill count from 2 classes)

It is impossible for you to be unable to practice all of your skills/spells at 2nd class rates with 22500 practices.

Not to mention. you do not HAVE to train every single skill, thugh by 4500 quests you should have. There is no rule in the game that says OMG, MUST MAX EVERYTHING BEFORE I CAN MULTI, OMG!

Shut up, multiclass, and quest 3rd class.

#34 Coconut

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:29 PM

(From Solus):
Of course, its understandable why the limits were adding - people were camping classes and mindlessly doing the same quests over and over until they got bored of the game because they didn't explore the rest of the game. This limit stopped some people from boring theirself into quitting the game.



I know this has been stated many times before, but isn't that the wrong way to solve the problem? It's like building a crappy car whose gas tank explodes after 100,000 miles, so they make drivers sign agreements not to drive over 100,000 miles, rather than aiming to build a better car.

And Elana, are you sure you're fine with not being allowed to enter PK? That'd prevent you from doing a lot of the 2nd class quests, too, you know. :P

#35 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:33 PM

From Dragonburner

I'm laughing at people who are complaining about the quest limit. 4500 quests is MORE THAN ENOUGH.



Do you know what OCD is - let me give you a little lesson!

Obsessive compulsive disorder.

People with OCD cannot always control there "need" to do things

Some people can get over it, or are medicated for it or get years of therapy to cope with it. Others like me, are not drastically affected by it, I don't think anyone is gonna die if I don't do my max amount of quests in one sitting like a person with severe OCD might.

(will explain some irl affects near the end)

For me ... MM affects

I can't sit still, or eat, or go to bed unless I have accomplished a preset list of objectives (remember i play multiple characters alternating usually between 2 on any given day)

1 - Quest to the limit I can (5 or 7)
2 - Kill X number of mobs per character
3 - Get a better from use in atleast 1 skill on each character
4 - Train a skill to 75% or 100% (if I have the practices to do so) per character
OR
5 - Train main stat or a vital stat (if I have the practices to do so) per character ( i dont have to do all 9 stats in 1st class) Usually main stat, vitality, knowledge, wisdom and luck give or take based on the class path. I never train hp, sp or stamina except at 240 on few characters i plan to hero)
6 - Deposit X number of gold (bank balance has to be a round number) per character


I also have to do almost all of my skills and or spells before I can multi a character - there are a few ways i can force myself to circumvent the "need" to do things, but it is at a cost to me, I will end up staying awake for a week to cope with it, or not be able to eat for a few days till my brain can convince the compulsion in me that it is ok.

Maybe you still can't understand all this, I know it sounds like one major excuse to want to do anything you want but it is a medical condition I have lived with for years and years. It seems way more out of the ordinary for you than for anyone who is around me irl.

Irl, I can't step on cracks in the sidewalk, my husband can't touch my books, my desk, my shelf, my dresser or move anything I put in a specific place (like nic-nac's). I cannot eat food from a blue and white restaurant at all even if someone else goes in and gets take out. I can't eat a burger or a sandwich if it isn't put together in the order I think it should be stacked. My husband can't even fold or put away our daughters clothes cause I would have to go redo the drawres if he did cause things have to be a certain way and he can't understand the order things have to be placed in. For us it is all taken care of in our routine, we barely even notice I have OCD on a daily basis unless a new situation arises.

Back to MM things, the quest class limit is really hard for me to cope with because MM didn't have class quest limits when I started playing it.

Accepting changes is something people with OCD have a really hard time coping with.


I don't expect anyone to remove class questing limit, it has a purpose and I don't deny that, but I still cannot see any reason why alts of archons and hero's cannot have 1 alt that can do unlimited questing in 1st and or 2nd class with restrictions.

:yy: Only be placed on 1 alt ever. Not transferable from alt to alt

:yy: One alt per player, not per archon/hero.

:yy: If you want to make it so they can never PK fine by me.

Hope that helps you atleast understand the OCD aspect of my want to quest till my compulsion is satisfied.

#36 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:44 PM

From Cazzira

If someone enjoys first or second class questing so much, just make another char and do it there? It sounds to me that a few people actually enjoy doing quests over the progression of a character. I think this falls into the category of whining for whining sakes



No one should be forced to create a new character or to multi to be able to play a game like MM and still enjoy themselves.

Creating a way like an immortal toggable setting that allows all types of players to have fun, would be such an easy solution to a situation that affects more than just 1 person. I know there are a lot of players that would enjoy having 1 alt that they can just quest till there heart is content.


As to you Coconut, I could give up FGK pk or CPK in templeton to be able to quest at 60 and / or 120 endlessly. Gladly, without a second thought about it.

I have characters I can pk on if I choose to PK. I am not against PK, I rather enjoy occasionally ganking someone who jumps me, or getting together with friends and forming up to take out a form sitting in Vospire town square, choose to quest 100000000 times before I would choose to PK if I could only do 1 or the other.

#37 Cazzira

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:04 PM

I don't recall ever using the word force, and a still think my point stands pretty well. You do just enjoy doing the quests correct?

#38 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:24 PM

No I enjoy progressively watching my character grow, I am a role player of sorts as well. And since I could without really trying hard hit the 2nd class quest limit in a year, you are saying every year I should just make a new character in order to still enjoy MM - that is a sad option that I will be forced to make again way too soon - and without the satisfaction of even being able to say that I accomplished anything, because I would still have skills or spells or stats not done to my personal goal levels let alone all done like some people prefer to have them be (stats I mean).

#39 Minotorious

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:35 PM

(From Elana):
No I enjoy progressively watching my character grow, I am a role player of sorts as well. And since I could without really trying hard hit the 2nd class quest limit in a year, you are saying every year I should just make a new character in order to still enjoy MM - that is a sad option that I will be forced to make again way too soon - and without the satisfaction of even being able to say that I accomplished anything, because I would still have skills or spells or stats not done to my personal goal levels let alone all done like some people prefer to have them be (stats I mean).



AND GUESS WHAT. SITTING AT 120 REPEATEDLY QUESTING WHEN EVERY SKILL AND SPELL IS COMPLETE ISNT 'WATCHING YOUR CHARACTER' GROW.

When you hit the cap. you will almost 100% assuredly be maxxed out.

There is a game beyond second class, you dont HAVE to make a new char just because you hit the 2nd class cap.

you COULD multiclass and then enjoy UNLIMITED questing from then on.

#40 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:42 PM

From Dragonburner

AND GUESS WHAT. SITTING AT 120 REPEATEDLY QUESTING WHEN EVERY SKILL AND SPELL IS COMPLETE ISNT 'WATCHING YOUR CHARACTER' GROW.

When you hit the cap. you will almost 100% assuredly be maxxed out.

There is a game beyond second class, you dont HAVE to make a new char just because you hit the 2nd class cap.

you COULD multiclass and then enjoy UNLIMITED questing from then on.



I have characters that are higher than 120 I DO NOT ENJOY PLAYING THEM are you to dense to see that in my previous posts???

Secondly at 120 with 4500 quests I would not be done everything I WANTED TO DO on my character so quit telling me how I should play my character - I am not telling you how to play yours!

If you can't read and comprehend the whole concept of what i posted you should shut up now, before you make a bigger ass out of yourself!

#41 Solus

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:43 PM

If someone enjoys first or second class questing so much, just make another char and do it there? It sounds to me that a few people actually enjoy doing quests over the progression of a character. I think this falls into the category of whining for whining sakes.


Again, what is the point of making a character you are just going to throw away? The characters will keep hitting the limit over and over as time passes.

And i dont believe you.


Once again, your "I didn't do it, therefore it is impossible for you to do it" logic. :roll:

4500 quests at 120, at the average of 5 pracs per quest, is 22500 pracs. + marks + levelling pracs + level betters.


And what if you don't use KoC and actually find them yourself?
What if you don't have maxed wisdom as you level?
What if you do it in the manner that leveling betters don't help you train skills? (The method Nicias and I use.) (Or in contrast, you don't train skills till level 120.)

Also, 5 practices? What are you doing? Turning in all the bad ones?

Then there are old character factors. Lower quest rewards, fewer marks, higher skill cost, et cetra...

--

Sometimes you need thousands of quests to build a character. Othertimes, they can be built with a little over 100 quests. (I've done both.) It depends how you play and what you do.

Creating a way like an immortal toggable setting that allows all types of players to have fun, would be such an easy solution to a situation that affects more than just 1 person. I know there are a lot of players that would enjoy having 1 alt that they can just quest till there heart is content.


But would this really be fair? Characters able to do an unlimited number of quests would be stronger than those who are limited, thus they would be better for runs, PK, events, globals, and et cetra...

--

And just since people often joke about it, I, myself, don't have an obsessive compulsive disorder. I just liked questing.

#42 Solus

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:47 PM

AND GUESS WHAT. SITTING AT 120 REPEATEDLY QUESTING WHEN EVERY SKILL AND SPELL IS COMPLETE ISNT 'WATCHING YOUR CHARACTER' GROW.


Often true since character growth eventually slows to almost a stop, but consider it like Archon levels. For the most part, you don't really grow by gaining these; nonetheless, they make it feel like you are progressing. Some people get the same feeling from questing.

#43 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 09:58 PM

From Solus

But would this really be fair? Characters able to do an unlimited number of quests would be stronger than those who are limited, thus they would be better for runs, PK, events, globals, and et cetra...



If a person can quest endlessly at 180 or 240 or even quest at archon when every skill and spell and stat is done how would a person doing the majority or all of there quests in 1st and 2nd class unbalance that? All they are doing is questing for smaller rewards for a longer period of time in one class vs questing over several classes.

#44 Solus

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:04 PM

I more-so meant a limited second classer vs an unlimited second classer.

As it was, a lot of people were bothered by campers, especially ones that had 2000+hp and such.

#45 Minotorious

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:04 PM

(From Solus):

If someone enjoys first or second class questing so much, just make another char and do it there? It sounds to me that a few people actually enjoy doing quests over the progression of a character. I think this falls into the category of whining for whining sakes.


Again, what is the point of making a character you are just going to throw away? The characters will keep hitting the limit over and over as time passes.

And i dont believe you.


Once again, your "I didn't do it, therefore it is impossible for you to do it" logic. :roll:



Its called basic math. 4500 quests at 5 pracs per quest is 22500 pracs. Take a mediocre pracs per level of 10(which is well under average for first/2nd class, theres 1200 more.

23700.

If you have half a brain, you can get 60 marks at 120 without even sweating.

2400 more!

26100.

Pal/wizard. 26 skills, 87 spells. 113 total.

At an average of 3 pracs per %(its often well below that for the first 2 classes, e.g. most of first class is 1 prac per), assuming every skill started at 1%, and you did not get a single better in any skill that wasnt up to 75.

25,086 practices.

So. taking the MINIMUM quest rewards/level pracs/mark pracs you should be getting.

And taking the MAXIMUM it could cost you to prac everything.

You STILL get everything practiced, with the 2nd class char that has the MOST skills possible.


Unless you're just an idiot, and thrive on building pooty chars. You. Are. Full. Of. poo.

It is 100% impossible for anybody with a brain located somewhere in the vicinity of their cranium to do 4500 quests at 120 and NOT max all their skills/spells.



4500 quests at 120, at the average of 5 pracs per quest, is 22500 pracs. + marks + levelling pracs + level betters.


And what if you don't use KoC and actually find them yourself?
What if you don't have maxed wisdom as you level?
What if you do it in the manner that leveling betters don't help you train skills? (The method Nicias and I use.) (Or in contrast, you don't train skills till level 120.)

Also, 5 practices? What are you doing? Turning in all the bad ones?



If you quest keep/temp/rune you average 5-7 pracs per quest at 120. Or at least i did...

A). i didnt use koc to get my marks, seeing as how a lot of my marks were miniquests that nobody/very few people had even done before

B). What if you dont have maxxed wisdom...thats your fault...idiot.

C). Thats your choice.

The fact is, there is NO REASON for it to take 4500 quests and you still not be done at 120 unless you are a goddamn RETARD.

#46 Drahylin

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:08 PM

@Elana

So why don't you enjoy playing your higher level characters? it would seem to me that your enjoyment of seeing a character grow could be more readily accomplished at higher levels.

#47 Solus

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:20 PM

Its called basic math. 4500 quests at 5 pracs per quest is 22500 pracs. Take a mediocre pracs per level of 10(which is well under average for first/2nd class, theres 1200 more.


Again, who says you average 5 practices and such?

If you have half a brain, you can get 60 marks at 120 without even sweating.


If you know what marks exist.

So. taking the MINIMUM quest rewards/level pracs/mark pracs you should be getting.


Wrong. :roll:

And taking the MAXIMUM it could cost you to prac everything.


Wrong. I had a lot of skills that cost 4 and some spells that cost 5 on my alt.

It is 100% impossible for anybody with a brain located somewhere in the vicinity of their cranium to do 4500 quests at 120 and NOT max all their skills/spells.


Just keep telling the pilot his helicopter can't fly.

If you quest keep/temp/rune you average 5-7 pracs per quest at 120. Or at least i did...


Not everyone is you and not everyone quests in the same areas, and a lot of people don't average those rewards.

B). What if you dont have maxxed wisdom...thats your fault...idiot.

C). Thats your choice.

The fact is, there is NO REASON for it to take 4500 quests and you still not be done at 120 unless you are a goddamn RETARD.


Yes, yes. Just continue ignoring possible variables because it PROVES you wrong.

#48 Xarlia

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:24 PM

Don't participate in triathalons if you have chronic heart failure problems.

#49 Minotorious

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:43 PM

And if you manage to get pooty rewards, its YOUR fault. not the games. YOU should take the initiative to put yourself in a situation where you're being rewarded at an optimum level.

How the zark you going to whine about something, if you've chosen to accept substandard rewards.

And yes i know some skill take 4-5, but the overwhelming majority were 1-2 first class, so that balances out.

#50 Guest_elana_*

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:44 PM

:love: I don't know why i lose my interest in players the higher I level them past 120, maybe it is the endless leveling, maybe it is the quests that send me all over the world or take an hour to do. I can't pinpoint the exact reason yet, although I do wonder why all the time.

:cball: Dragonburner, maybe you should try questing Templeton these days she offers 1, 2, and 3 practice quests more than she offers 4 practice quests let alone 5 or 6 practice ones. I turned down 7, 3 practice quests in a row tonight to get a 4 practice one. (and FYI i do quest before level 60 and from 61-120 so I dont only do 4500 quests at 4 practice plus thanks.

Not everyone can get 60 marks by 120 immortals disable marks al the time, or change them and not everyone relies on marks to accomplish there goals.

Stop assuming everyone is built to do everything the way you did or assume they should do it. Everyone plays there own way WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

:bdie: Solus, my immortal toggable idea, was with the agreement of not being able to PK at all (not even LPK) if that is what would satisfy one group of anti-class-camping-people. I would agree to just about any restriction *except giving up my practices and quest points gotta be able to practice my skills and train stats [and i dont mean hp's sp's and stamina] and get a decanter, a mail box, a piggy bank, silk bags and reagent makers) i would even agree to not getting gold from the quest itself provided the mobs i killed for quest or between quests were not affected by the gold ban.


:yy: I just want to be able to quest and play a ranger / priest or a wizard / priest until I WAS SATISFIED WITH IT - not until only teh essentials was done, or only what dragonburned deems as needed was done, or only what someone else would do. I want to play MY CHARACTER, MY WAY, UNTIL I AM HAPPY WITH IT.

I don't begrudge anyone who power levels, pk's, role plays (only), quests (only) or plays with a combination of everything.

:clock: I have tried everything, runs bore me especially when the loot is piss poor and not what we were hoping for, pk heh its part of the game and im not one to avoid it or to run head first into it, I have played CTF, chess isn't my game, im not a big gambler although slots can be addictive, i like the treasure maps, but they cost too much and are on the wrong continent for my personal preference, i do kill mobs alot, I have attempted and maybe even accomplished mini's and marks without having to look them up on some website, I have been to decara and surrounding areas, the faerie plane, atlantis, OV, both ships, and to every continent and quested every quest master including the keep on one character or another.

Questing at 60 or 120 is still the most enjoyable thing for me.

I hope everyone in MM can find something they enjoy and enjoy it without being forced to make new characters, or to multi where there enjoyment is diminished.