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Object Weight


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#26 Chorin

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 01:41 PM

[Scenario B] May as well make Octarine Pendants weigh 4 stones each and Runic Library Cards weigh about 3 stones... THOSE FIRST CLASSERS AREN'T USING BRAND NEW GEAR!

They're hoarding all the good crappy eq just to get level bonuses!

How dare they use the equipment they want to use that is available to them in this game! [/Scenario B]

#27 Lugh

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:24 PM

In effect they've now turned the "game" into a place of work, where you HAVE to quest camp 120 to get enough QP for several trunks. It could also be looked at as a game which ends when you hit 120 as a lot of the fun has gone out of it from then on in, and you might as well load up your old copy of Diablo and play that.

#28 Cymarra

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 02:48 PM

I was thinking, as a second classer, you have most of that eq, and if you haven't got barb to raise your strength you can't get a lot of items needed for quests most of the time. If you trunk any of the items (providing you have a trunk) or put in magical pouch (again, if you have it) your screwed cause you cant get it out to turn in quest and your quest will be incomplete. I guess it's time to sit back and wait for all the quests that require nothing but running around. :wall: :aclock: :clock: :whistle: :evil: :naughty:

#29 Vur

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:10 PM

Ok. I get maybe an hour, or two at the most to play the game. I don't have the time to sit down for two plus hours and go on a run to get better equipment to lower my weight because of work and my kid. I get penalized cause I have a life outside of Materia Magica? I know my word doesn't mean much to anyone or to the admin, but if this sticks you have lost a player.

#30 Saitok

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:13 PM

I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, I can sympathize with the people who seem to be being raped by this change. On the other, I see myself barely noticing a difference while using quite a few of the items listed, and wondering what in the hell you people are carrying around with you.

I have a lot less stuff than my clannies and tend to walk around in crappier stuff than them as well, and I was sitting by laughing while most of them couldn't use their trunks after the change.

In general, I see this as an incentive to clean out your trunks, or consider new equipment options.

#31 Phaustix

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:36 PM

I do not understand the huge problem with this. While I do agree this screws over lowbies pretty hard, that isn't what most of us are complaining about. Could a level-adjust-weight flag be added?

Why do you need to carry so many of those items that it actually weighs you down? While my trunks are fairly full now, I do have a lot of that cpk gear stashed away which will soon have to be cleared. Oh no. I have 19 strength and I still notice a very little difference.

This change pushes you to get silk bags, four trunks, and other weight-saving equipment. Besides, what runs are you all so pissed off about having to do? Just because people can no longer survive on newbie equipment doesn't mean the alternate equipment is going to be hard to get.

#32 Chyribdus

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:48 PM

Personally, I can just barely handle this change. As a fey valk, I only have 18 str natural, and its not even maxed. The ONLY reason I can carry ANYTHING extra is that I cast enhanced strength on myself when I need to carry more weight. I have seen multiple 2nd classers without trunks that are constantly at the weight max. I have had 3rd classers myself in that same situation. Not everyone has a trunk, and not everyone has the ability to handle the pk in Maldra's keep for one (dont give me the bs about Terra, I've only seen him twice since he was imp'd). Not everyone has real money to be paying for a pouch, which does very little toward this problem. Not everyone has gold to buy RU for a pouch either. If you really want to make this change, then make it for higher level gear ONLY, and even then, make it less drastic. Symbols going up to 10X their old weight, standard gear at least doubling. I'm shocked I can even hold my shield up, much less move it to block. It was heavy to begin with. Now, imagine wearing 2 pounds of metal around your neck (which is low in comparing 1 stone to real weights, I would estimate by rough averages, 1 stone = approx 5 lbs). Think you would get a neck ache, or worse?

I know this game isnt supposed to be realistic, but you are already using natural properties from real life, and then adjusting them to fit properly, like gravity. Said properties should be constants, as it is irl. Whats next to change, only be able to buy stuff in stores if you have the gold on hand?

#33 Yagami

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 04:00 PM

Time to hoard before the demand spikes.

I can see why the armor weights increased, but the jewelry increases are a bit ridiculous. A 3kg ring just doesn't make any sense to me. What is this, like 100 or 1000G? I have always viewed jewelry slots as places to wear some magical trinket that grants a magical effect, and that's what they did for the most part. If someone wants to use a low level item instead of a superior higher level item, then so be it. I don't foresee people changing their gear all that much, except lower level players that just can't carry the weight.

The level-adjust-weight flag is a good idea.

#34 Klaus

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:02 PM

Come on guys, dont be difficult. You're supposed to do runs from bugged-out-beyond-belief places that are hard to get to for lighter and superior gear.

Remeber though, when reporting issues, the typical response from the immortal in chagre is: "You shouldnt have done it when I wasnt around."

They're only trying to encourage more teamwork and runs, I dont see why people would be so discouraged to do stuff......

Let this be an exercise in reality for all of you.

#35 Magiick

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:12 PM

So... why weren't spell turnings increased to 3 stones each?

People whine too much. Yes, i am saying this because i am an ogre :)

#36 Vassago

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:17 PM

Can we see some actual examples of how specific people have been affected by this change, rather than generalizations?

#37 Alvah

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:23 PM

Item 'the leggings of an elder dragon' is type armor, alignment 0, made of bone,
has keywords 'elder dragon leggings', equipped on the legs.
This item weighs 1 stones and 76 pebbles, and is valued at 55,300 gp.
This level 240 item has the attributes: identified invis insulated
The leggings of an elder dragon is in excellent condition.
Armor resistance is 50 pierce, 49 bash, 51 slash, and 49 exotic.
Affects saving-breath by 6.
*This item may be repaired 3 times.
Deceptively light as you pick them up, the leggings sparkle with the
iridescence of the dragon scales they are formed from. The scales shimmer
in the light, beautiful iridescent blues and greens. The jeweltones make
these leggings a beautiful garment to wear, but as you slip them on, you
realize that beauty is only a portion of their function.


Example.

#38 Alvah

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:30 PM

I also bought woven bags thinking that the gear I wear all the time wouldn't suddenly be tripled in weight with no rhyme or reason.

#39 Rigan

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 05:54 PM

(From Vassago):
Can we see some actual examples of how specific people have been affected by this change, rather than generalizations?



I thought I had been pretty specific.

18 strength total, maxed.

Carrying - 3 bags, 20 of each reagent, 6 flash bombs, 6 cb pots, 2 smoke bombs, 1 black leather whip. - Encumbered now thanks to the 2 stones around my neck (isnt a stone = 10 pounds? lol).

I have a donation pouch, now filled with extra reagents and 1 set of spare weapons - since now I have to choose between carrying a forge or having perm sanc/fireshield/shield/bless/haste via the symbols.

Encumbered = I move slower walking and doesn't encumbrance affect combat as well?

Your suggestion to me on PKtalk last night Vass was to learn to use lockers..........

So, are you saying I can get a locker full of reagents and access them in combat without a trunk? Hmm, no, I don't think you are.

I have nothing in my inventory that is wasteful. I even sac'd all my plushes (lol some were gifts too, make them lockerable!! grr)

Options for 120's to replace the symbols are VERY limited - silk scarves, blue orbs, haste rings.. first class gear basically.

I gave away my BoT this morning because I can't carry it. It fills up, I cant get everything out of it because I can't carry that much weight unless I get rid of the symbols. Way to waste 10,000 quest points.

how does this affect me specifically? Certain quests will be impossible if the items weigh too much (I'm remembering one quest where you have to collect a pile of spears), yet i need to do another 1000 quests now to get QP for 2 trunks.

I cannot carry all of the items I would like to in order to do the harder runs / marks (Stargazers, Armageddon hall, etc).

I cannot carry all of the items I would like to for PK - bombs, snares, pots, etc.

Any why? Because you wanted to penalize Archons for wearing CPK gear??

::boggles:: :doh: :doh: :doh:

#40 Magiick

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:21 PM

A better example would be, any new character that has just started, gotten to 120. They with almost 80% certainty be wearing 2 rings of wizardry and 2 symbol, also possibly boots of valor.

Now, unless they have gone Barbarian (and in most cases even if they have) - most low levels won't have max strength and will most likely be below the ~15 strength mark. Since most low levels don't have trunks, they have to carry all their stuff around in non-weight-reducing bags.

Now, figure in all the other gear they have to wear. And you have one encumbered lowbie.

You may say they can just stop wearing the gear, but since the reason for this change seems to be to aimed at heroes/archons all wearing the same generic EQ - crippling a whole lot of 2nd classers isn't really the way to go.

Other than Spell Turnings, there are next to no rings worth using at 240/241 - let alone 120. How bout you add some decent rings rather than zark with the ones that are used as a staple piece of equipment.

...Now the most this affects me is I have to spam my 7 Bags of Tricks more because they make me encumbered when they're all full - lucky me eh? So it doesn't really affect me, but it must have taken some warped thinking and very little consideration to come up with this idea.

Want people to stop using generic gear? Add more viable alternatives, don't take current ones away.

#41 Primus

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:36 PM

Okay.

Uh, so what's the problem?

<used as light>      the crystal of power (new) (lit)
<worn on finger>     a ring of wizardry (slightly worn)
<worn on finger>     a ring of wizardry (new)
<worn around neck>   (Invisible) an onyx dragonfly pendant (worn)
<worn around neck>   (Invisible) a holy symbol of Vandyne (new)
<worn on body>       the breastplate of a Diocletian negotiator (new)
<worn on head>       Dr. Jonathan Crane's Scarecrow Mask (+9) (new)
<worn on legs>       a polished seashell garter (crumbling)
<worn on feet>       spring-loaded boots (used)
<worn on hands>      a pair of moonstone gauntlets (new)
<worn on arms>       >./ Let's put a smile on that face. .< (new)
<worn as shield>     a circular mirror shield (new)
<worn about body>    a suit of Tetragrammaton platemail (falling apart)
<worn about waist>   (Pulsating) P A R T Y  H A R D (damaged)
<worn around wrist>  [[ Lethe ]] (new)
<worn around wrist>  not the legendary timepiece 'Animexedon' (heavily worn)
<left hand>          >+ Ping-Pong Paddle of !!DoOoOOooM!! +< (new)


plus

a battered pink mouse
     a page of parchment titled 'Anarchic Entity'
     Angelina's mysterious box of superhappyfuntimenao (new)
     a sunstone
     an admantite token
     a Sigilian Crossing house key
(  2) a golden token
(  2) a copper token
(  2) a crystal token
     a weighted companion cube (new)
     the Rainbow bass  (new)
     a decanter of endless pork soda
     [:] INTERNET HATE MACHINE [:] (new)
     the title to the ship '
     his arse (new)


Cloud: A total of 175 items weighing 2 sts, 3 pbs.
Container1: A total of 23 items weighing 3 sts, 44 pbs.
Container2: weighing 0 sts, 58 pbs.
Container3: items weighing 1 st, 34 pbs.

A total of 18 items weighing 16 stones, 94 pebbles (18pb gold weight)
You may carry a maximum of 58 items weighing up to 19 st, 0 pb.

What's the beef? I've got two stones spare still and all my junk. If I want to drop some weight, I'll do dump some of my 2haxes in a locker somewhere.

#42 Vassago

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:38 PM

Alvah: that's not an example of how people have been affected by this change. It's an item description.

Rigan and Magiick's posts are informative.

Also, I was NOT ON PKTALK LAST NIGHT.

#43 Magiick

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:44 PM

(From Primus):
Okay.

Uh, so what's the problem?

<used as light>      the crystal of power (new) (lit)
<worn on finger>     a ring of wizardry (slightly worn)
<worn on finger>     a ring of wizardry (new)
<worn around neck>   (Invisible) an onyx dragonfly pendant (worn)
<worn around neck>   (Invisible) a holy symbol of Vandyne (new)
<worn on body>       the breastplate of a Diocletian negotiator (new)
<worn on head>       Dr. Jonathan Crane's Scarecrow Mask (+9) (new)
<worn on legs>       a polished seashell garter (crumbling)
<worn on feet>       spring-loaded boots (used)
<worn on hands>      a pair of moonstone gauntlets (new)
<worn on arms>       >./ Let's put a smile on that face. .< (new)
<worn as shield>     a circular mirror shield (new)
<worn about body>    a suit of Tetragrammaton platemail (falling apart)
<worn about waist>   (Pulsating) P A R T Y  H A R D (damaged)
<worn around wrist>  [[ Lethe ]] (new)
<worn around wrist>  not the legendary timepiece 'Animexedon' (heavily worn)
<left hand>          >+ Ping-Pong Paddle of !!DoOoOOooM!! +< (new)


plus

a battered pink mouse
     a page of parchment titled 'Anarchic Entity'
     Angelina's mysterious box of superhappyfuntimenao (new)
     a sunstone
     an admantite token
     a Sigilian Crossing house key
(  2) a golden token
(  2) a copper token
(  2) a crystal token
     a weighted companion cube (new)
     the Rainbow bass  (new)
     a decanter of endless pork soda
     [:] INTERNET HATE MACHINE [:] (new)
     the title to the ship '
     his arse (new)


Cloud: A total of 175 items weighing 2 sts, 3 pbs.
Container1: A total of 23 items weighing 3 sts, 44 pbs.
Container2: weighing 0 sts, 58 pbs.
Container3: items weighing 1 st, 34 pbs.

A total of 18 items weighing 16 stones, 94 pebbles (18pb gold weight)
You may carry a maximum of 58 items weighing up to 19 st, 0 pb.

What's the beef? I've got two stones spare still and all my junk. If I want to drop some weight, I'll do dump some of my 2haxes in a locker somewhere.



You are wearing little equipment (don't have tail/wing slots and not wearing a cloak/robe/soul), have 1 trunk? and very little quest items and you are still nearing your carrying capacity?

#44 Rigan

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:56 PM

(From Vassago):
Alvah: that's not an example of how people have been affected by this change. It's an item description.

Rigan and Magiick's posts are informative.

Also, I was NOT ON PKTALK LAST NIGHT.



Ooo, I do sincerely apologize for that then, some IMM was on PKtalk invis and as Duende was visible, I assumed it was you, my bad. :(

#45 Charmante

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:06 PM

Ok, on a non serious note: Any female complaining about jewelry being too heavy… Are you out of your mind?

Secondly, question to those of you who use the woven bags - Do you use runestones/sunstones or do you go out of your way to get the more rare types of gems/eth that weigh less? Unless you go out of your way to obtain the ones that weigh less do you really have a right to complain? You are choosing to use reagents that weigh more. Many are also appearing to choose to use this list of items that weigh more.

The comment about the spear quest, or any quest where you gather heavy weapons: It really sucks that you won't be able to hold all your weapons in your inventory when you quest complete due to strength. Maybe there's an alternative: change quests so you give each item to the quest master, or to another mob so they can be stashed away and removed or gathered on a one by one basis. I know many people have also been told by Immortals before: not all quests are supposed to be doable. That might be a quest you cannot do and must turn down.

I think any of you who have played this for some time would agree this change seems minimal compared to other changes over the years.

Everyone always resists change at first. Give it a chance/try, switch stuff around and see if the change really makes it impossible for you to play as some of you make it out to be.

#46 Yagami

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:29 PM

I'm not female. =( I also not privileged enough to wear jewelry that weighs several kilograms.

Right now, I'm sitting at just below 19st. With all possible slots (donation/wings/tail) filled and four trunks plus a forge in my inventory. I also happen to be using some of the equipment that became heavier. I can carry 24 stones, so I don't have it nearly as bad as lower strength races, but I believe the change was a bit overboard on some items.

For a level-adjust-weight flag, how about doing Item Weight = (Base Weight + Character Level/10)*Character Level/Item Level? It would be fairly easy to target a certain level range for a particular item. It should work like the level-adjust flag, so it only kicks in when you use it. Is it really a problem if archons want to hoard crappy items and never use them?

#47 Kabaal

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 07:44 PM

You focus your powers of observation on a ChaotiC interlude:
Item 'a ChaotiC interlude' is type container, alignment 0, made of reinforced-wood,
has keywords 'vandemaar trunk'.
This item weighs 1 stones and 10 pebbles, and is valued at 14,000 gp.
This level 140 item has the attributes: identified blessed nodrop no-auction weight-reduce
r insulated wont-fuse nouncurse unbreakable nodecay magic-resistant no-dispel will-float l
ocker
A ChaotiC interlude is in excellent condition.
Capacity: 250 items. Maximum weight: 54 st, 0 pb. Flags: closeable
When you look inside, you see:
(230) (Invisible) a holy symbol of Vandyne (new)
( 14) (Invisible) the leggings of an elder dragon (new)
A total of 244 (250 max) items weighing 254 sts, 36 pbs (54 sts, 0 pbs max).

Thanks for making my second trunk useless.


I hate this game im quitting again

#48 Yagami

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 08:11 PM

Oh, I forgot to mention I'm also wearing two quivers despite not being a ranger, and I have dream clouds with eths and gems in my inventory.

#49 Alvah

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 08:16 PM

A woven gold bag contains:
( 44) a sunstone
( 43) an essence of the source
( 35) a silver scale
A total of 122 (195 max) items weighing 2 sts, 10 pbs (6 sts, 0 pbs max).

A woven silver bag contains:
( 32) a silver runestone
( 97) a petrified seed
A total of 129 (195 max) items weighing 1 st, 61 pbs (4 sts, 0 pbs max).


I generally fill up on the light reagents when I come across a reagent shop that sells them and fill in what I use when I come across any reagent shop that doesn't. Regardless, I usually hover at about 4-5 stones combined.

At the moment I'm at:
A total of 15 items weighing 16 stones, 69 pebbles (16pb gold weight)

I also only have 2 trunks. Good thing I'm not an elf or a halfling.

The only thing that really bothers me about this is that as a hero, a lot of the options available to me are also heavy so there's really not a lot for me to use that isn't discouraged by the game.

Don't tell me to archon, because I will soon. For the time being, this is irritating and disruptive. If this isn't changing back, a flag to make these items heavy ONLY FOR ARCHONS should be added, since most of the new material that's added is aimed toward them anyway.

#50 Alvah

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 08:26 PM

Yes, a lot of people resist change just because. I've been guilty of this before and I'm sure almost everyone else has as well. I would welcome this change if I believed it to have any merit or sound reasoning at all, but I don't, and I'm sure a lot of others agree with that.

But do as you will.