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v4.3 Beta Game Addition: Religion


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#26 Reverence

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 12:52 PM

Why would Atheists have their own temples? If you don't believe in the powers that be, then that's your choice. You shouldn't be able to negate anything.

#27 Elaril

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 02:49 PM

(From Throm):
As I mentioned in-game, there should be a temple for atheist players, too. Rather than obtaining religious powers like the other devotions, atheist devotees would be rewarded with the ability to negate other religious powers in some manner for defending their non-temple-building-thing.




Hey uh.. deedeedee? When have you ever heard of an atheist have a temple, or a synagogue, or even a worship pit for that matter? Atheists refuse to conform to religion or accept existence deities of ANY kind, and wholly reject the notion of any type of "deity". Therefore, it isn't a real religion, no matter what they want you to think. They won't get any "SPECIAL POWERS" because they don't believe in them, because it would have to be based on a "higher power" or "deity". Unless, of course, they want to go through Alyria's varied court systems to challenge the right of others to espouse religion where they wish, that's basically all they could do. Or rant and shout outside religious buildings maybe. Therefore, no temples either because it symbolises "religion" which is rejected. So idealogically AND realistically, you cannot have them

#28 Elaril

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 02:51 PM

That being said, I think this can really open up the playing field of maybe bringing some more players in, since all I hear is reports of the player base dwindling because of things not being fixed, or changes implemented that just shouldn't have been. It has to be done right though, and can't conflict with the current Alliance Strongholds to where players have to try and defend both at the same time, which is impractical.

This is interesting and shows promise.

#29 Reverence

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 04:24 PM

Let us not forget about the Scientologists of Alyria. We have to give them some mind bending powers.

#30 Zaki

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 04:42 AM

(From Yankee):

(From Zaki):
I have a problem with this.
I'm a pacifist monk.

I would the system to be expanded to involve non-religious extremists.

Saenia - The sea-elves native to the Proving Grounds worship Saenia, Goddess of Peace and Diplomacy, as a saving grace against the sahuagin.


Perhaps they could be related to -not- murdering things?

Please.



How do you level your character?


Talent.

#31 Throm

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 09:22 AM

(From Elaril):
Hey uh.. deedeedee? When have you ever heard of an atheist have a temple, or a synagogue, or even a worship pit for that matter?


Here, here, and here.

And if you're too srs bsns to get what I mean by that, there are also a slew of atheist community centers in real life, like this one.

#32 Dupre

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:50 AM

I'll be the leader of the atheists if its necessary. I don't mind being deified

#33 Ovelia

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:05 AM

Help Alignment shows a hint of the D&D Alignment System.
If this is directly connected to Religions, then I would pick a Chaotic Good aligned Power, Demi/Lesser god, or deity.
If such an aspect exists.


:sheep::flame:

#34 Reverence

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:41 AM

I must just be retarded. I really can't seem to grasp the concept of being an Atheist.

They claim to hold no belief in higher, spiritual powers. Basically the things that the cults of religion center around. Yet they label themselves with a religious term, and act like they've just branched out into their own sect. If you don't believe, why label yourself in a religious way, and attend a non-believing religious temple? It makes no sense.

#35 Throm

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 11:17 AM

(From Reverence):
I must just be retarded. I really can't seem to grasp the concept of being an Atheist.

They claim to hold no belief in higher, spiritual powers. Basically the things that the cults of religion center around. Yet they label themselves with a religious term, and act like they've just branched out into their own sect. If you don't believe, why label yourself in a religious way, and attend a non-believing religious temple? It makes no sense.


What religious term do they label themselves with?

And I think you've significantly confused meetings in a building with church services in a church/temple. Congress meets. They even have a designated building for it. This does not make them a religion. Ditto for atheists.

#36 Reverence

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:12 PM

United States Atheists promotes atheism as both a fact about the world and as a way of life. We operate the first Atheist Community Center to be established in the United States. Our mission includes ministering to the needs of non-theists, promoting atheism as a positive belief system, supporting the separation of state and church, defending the civil rights of atheists, and combating the authoritarian agenda of the religious right and other extremists. We provide a safe, supportive place for atheists to share their views with like-minded folks. If you live in Portland, Oregon or plan to visit, join us for our meetings every Tuesday night.



This is the first paragraph on the Atheist Community page you linked. This just seems like another branch of "religion" to me. All based on the term Atheist. We don't believe in god or the higher powers, so we're going to congregate to a "temple" and promote our non-beliefs by discussing god, or a lack thereof.

Defending the civil rights of Atheists? What the hell is that? Your civil rights are no different whether you believe in god or not. A mission to minister to the needs of Atheists? What needs?

"and combating the authoritarian agenda of the religious right and other extremists." Lmao. What the hell is that? That sounds just like something a church might say about all of the naysayers and non-believers of the world. Everything about that opening paragraph just seems like someone elses religious, or apparently non-religious views, that they've spread out around the general public, much like any other church might do.

#37 Ovelia

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:35 PM

Shouldn't that be Agnoticism then? D:

:sheep::flame:

#38 Throm

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:48 PM

(From Reverence):
blah blah blah


Using your ignorant line of thought, if atheists are "more religious-like" because some of them meet at community centers to talk about it, then religious people who don't go to church are "more atheist-like." And that's just retarded.

#39 Vassago

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 03:30 PM

Hmm, it seemed like a civil discussion until your last comment, Throm.

#40 Reverence

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 04:06 PM

Using your ignorant line of thought, if atheists are "more religious-like" because some of them meet at community centers to talk about it, then religious people who don't go to church are "more atheist-like." And that's just retarded.



I'm just trying to convey my obviously confused thoughts on the matter based on the links that you provided. If you don't believe in things like God, and spiritual powers, then why would you put together a group to discuss such matters, as well as the matters of people who are most certainly religious.

I guess what I really meant to say is that the term Atheist, in my opinion, is a complete contradiction to it's apparent meaning. Nothing more, nothing less.

#41 Throm

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:23 PM

(From Reverence):
I'm just trying to convey my obviously confused thoughts on the matter based on the links that you provided. If you don't believe in things like God, and spiritual powers, then why would you put together a group to discuss such matters, as well as the matters of people who are most certainly religious.

I guess what I really meant to say is that the term Atheist, in my opinion, is a complete contradiction to it's apparent meaning. Nothing more, nothing less.


And what I'm telling you is that your ignorance about what exactly "atheism" entails is completely clouding your judgment.

Atheism is simply the opposite of theism. That's it. Anything an atheist does, how he behaves, or what he believes beyond not being a theist is not representative of the general concept of atheism. This includes, but is not limited to, those atheists who enjoy meeting with others and discussing it with them.

As for why some people choose to do this, isn't it obvious? These people aren't just content with "not believing." They actively disagree with those who do believe. It's a hot topic for discussion, just like abortion, the death penalty, etc. and so on. There are people content with just "not supporting" abortion in a ho-hum, passive way. There are also people who are so actively against abortion that they regularly meet with other like-minded people to discuss it, and sometimes protest it. Does this make it a religion?

#42 Vlidash

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:14 PM

There is a problem with the word/usage of the word "atheist". Atheism, basically, is the belief in no gods, or deities. That technically does not mean that they can not be religious. An atheist can hold no belief in any god or gods, and still be spiritual. Agnosticism is pretty much a fancy way to say someone is undecided about it. Technically, it means that they believe there is absolutely no way of knowing.

Reverence, throm was correct in saying that your confusion arises from thinking in terms of your religion. The atheist community members do not gather to praise and worship like a religious group would, they gather merely to support and communicate with each other.

#43 Alondra

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:13 PM

It's one thing to choose not to follow a single Power exclusively, but I don't understand how someone can be an atheist in Alyria.

An atheist would have to:
1) Refuse to sacrifice anything to the Powers.
2) Find a new way to resurrect. Do the "Powers take pity" on faeries?

If #2 is possible for non-faeries, then I can see the beginning of atheism and an Anti-Power movement.

#44 Throm

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:36 PM

Atheists use the hermit ;)

#45 Reverence

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:41 PM

I really wasn't trying to be ignorant, and I apologize if it came off that way. As I said earlier, obviously I'm confused. A little bit of civilized clarity isn't such a hard thing now is it? :P

#46 Vlidash

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 07:45 PM

(From Reverence):
I really wasn't trying to be ignorant, and I apologize if it came off that way. As I said earlier, obviously I'm confused. A little bit of civilized clarity isn't such a hard thing now is it? :P



It is on the MM message boards, so you should be grateful I accomplished such an arduous task.

#47 Murdoch

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:34 PM

SHUT UP VLIDASH.

#48 Reverence

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:58 PM

That last comment of mine wasn't really aimed at you, Vlidash :P

#49 Izayoi

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 02:22 PM

The Anti-Power movement's obviously the Cult of Metonychoseuthis, with Swiveling Hooks. Destroy the universe, destroy himself, bring about total non-existence, etc. For the athiests, well... think "the end justifies the means." Sign up today.

#50 Elaril

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 06:33 PM

Look, we can argue semantics all we want. It still doesn't detract from the simple fact, I think, that an athiest does NOT get any special "powers" or "abilities", and should not expect otherwise. It simply flies in the face of not believing in anything supernatural, or deification of anything. It still would not fit in any belief or non-belief system - irl or Alyria.

And really, Throm. Simply posting links and using someone else's words? That's not very significant argument-wise. Come up with your own words of why you think you should get special powers, with your opinion of what an athiest is, ok? Unless I missed something, I don't think you've ever really established your detailed point here for having these super powers.