Jump to content

Welcome!

Sign In or Register to gain full access to our forums.

Photo
- - - - -

Feedback on Cities


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
23 replies to this topic

#1 Esker

Esker

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 69 posts

Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:53 PM

Let's talk about Alyrian cities. Which cities do you dislike? What's bad about them? Is the recall spot in an annoying place, is it too far from the exit? Are shops too spread out? Perhaps you'd like to commend a city for something - what do you like about that city?

We're open to making adjustments to cities, so we want to hear what you think. This will be a long-term thing, and so we want to hear about unintuitive layouts, cities that are dizzying mazes or as sparse as a desert in how spread out they are. Collecting feedback will take a while.

Also, no, more brothels is not an option.

#2 Wabi

Wabi

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 29 December 2012 - 12:19 AM

I actually like all of the cities in the game layout wise.

Those that are on alyrian plane are mainly simple squares, and I love squares. The cities in the underground and faerie plane are of apt difficulty with winding paths, as imo they should be, and while they can be harder to find shops etc I don't feel that they're traps.

One of my oldest pet peeves, as I'm sure is many others is the gondola in NR. Its sloooooow and getting on and off requires your constant attention, and theres only one of them.

These might be a little more broader than your question, but here we go:

Rune bank should have a teller of _some_ variety, and all tellers should either have a note in their description, or inform you how bar exchange works like the one in sigil does. Updating the banking help files to have this as well would be cool.

Also I think Villages recall ranges are waaaaaaay too big, almost all villages are niche visits but their zones are huge.

I'm actually curious if we could get some opinions of people who are newer to the game, as having played for a while I've just become used to where everything is.

#3 Ethne

Ethne

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 42 posts

Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:30 AM

First of all, I would like to say that I agree with all of Wabi's comments. I particularly like his comments about the NR gondola and especially the Rune bank. I think the gondola adds a really neat touch to NR, but I dread having to use it. Maybe if there were two gondola drivers? And considering that the Rune bank charges a relatively high commission, I don't see why they don't have a teller there for trading, selling RU, etc.

Two cities that I absolutely despise are Templeton and Tellerium. They are huge, unmanageable for me without constantly looking at a map, and it is too easy to turn down a one-way street. We have a running joke in my clan... anytime someone mentions wanting to build a house in one of these cities, I ask them why they would choose to live in the ghetto. All of the major streets in these cities have far too many doors and cross streets coming off of them; it's just too much for me to keep up with as I'm running through, and I always miss my exit. It is possible to get completely lost in Templeton, for isntance, whereas I don't it would take anyone more than a few seconds to figure out how to get to a a major gate in they were lost in Rune or Lowangen. Although I leveled in Tellerium during first class, I now avoid these cities at all costs. I much prefer the smaller cities, like Rune, Sigil, and Lowangen, that all have very simple central structures with the bells and whistles (ie, castles, temples, leveling areas) tacked onto the sides.

#4 Dupre

Dupre

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 905 posts

Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:36 AM

Do some sigil shops still close at night? That's always been irritating. The northeast of templeton is boring and full of gang members! Apparently I am always wearing rival gang colors too.

#5 Fluke

Fluke

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 326 posts

Posted 29 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

I agree with Ethne, I have played moongate for over a decade and I loathe having to do anything with that entire continent! Some complanents are as follows:
*The cities are far too large for the classes that they are catered to.
*The stupid janitor badge expires so I constantly have to get another one.
*Trying to run north to south down steadfast puts me into the market area (a dead end to me) when it should lead to gulf so I can get out of telli faster.
*I need to consult a map constantly to figure out where the trainers are in telli and I couldn't tell you if trainers existed in temp, but I could tell you all about the esoteric ones in PC!
*Aside from the global being in telli and formerly being required to only lvl 4th class in the cats I've no reason to use my house there aside from running to OV.

City revamps/alterations should be done with the hardwork that Adovix did in mind imo, race/class specific much like OV. Plenty of bosses and runs to do, killing a certain mob to have a bigger better mob spawn, race unique gear and so on!

#6 Badhorse

Badhorse

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:04 PM

One of my oldest pet peeves, as I'm sure is many others is the gondola in NR. Its sloooooow and getting on and off requires your constant attention, and theres only one of them.

These might be a little more broader than your question, but here we go:

Rune bank should have a teller of _some_ variety, and all tellers should either have a note in their description, or inform you how bar exchange works like the one in sigil does. Updating the banking help files to have this as well would be cool.




I agree with these two things. I only have a rune account so far and dont know about bar exchanges. It would have been nice to see it in Rune since i think ive wasted a few bars.

The gondola is a good concept but is a pain when you have to use it. I would like the option to ride the gondola as always or be able to run through the canal. Maybe only with levitation.

#7 Batfish

Batfish

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:12 AM

Speaking of annoying things about Tellerium, why on earth is the second defense trainer in the 'Rogue Guild'? Why not at the defensive trainer south off Scrane? There is also an archery trainer at that Rogue Guild, which doesn't make much sense either.

#8 Vaticus

Vaticus

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts

Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

How about that Drow city in the Underground? Is it open, or will it ever be?

#9 Gator

Gator

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:18 PM

The stores in Sigil closing at night is annoying when you get quests requiring an item only sold in those stores and your quest timer runs out long before the stores open.

Xaventry is a nightmare to me. I almost always need a map whenever I go there. There should be a single street circling the outer portion of the entire town, which would make it much easier to get around the place.

The trek to Tower of Art is quite long and there is nothing on the way after the Bazaar, I would like to see a town/city at the northern-central area of Sepharia.

I would like to see rune be expanded a little more, as the actual town is fairly small, and by comparison, Winterborne Mansion is almost larger than the town itself. As Lord Agrippa is supposed to be very influential and one of the greatest lords, it would seem more likely that his town would be a bit larger.

Sigil could use some expansions as well.

I agree with the statements regarding the Gondola in NR.

I know nothing about the bar exchanges, except that I can buy a bar but never get my gold back from it.

I also agree about the northeastern portion of Templeton in that it is boring and only gang members there. Perhaps Black Wolf Park there could be greatly expanded somewhat like Rune Forest and there could be some mini-quests in there or something.

I would like to see Frost Giant Keep expanded on and made a little larger with some new content like new mini-quest or two.

#10 Sprat

Sprat

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts

Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:36 AM

In general, I also like the layout of most cities.

Rune bank should definitely have a teller as well.

Sigil shops being closed at night when you get a quest requiring an item from said shops certainly is annoying and stupid.

The NR canal is a pain indeed. Why can I enter/traverse rivers in all other areas (not just the wilds, but Sigil, Rune Forest, Mandrake, etc.) of my own volition at the risk of drowning if not levitating, but am barred from entering/traversing the canal in New Rigel?

I believe there is still no direct route from New Rigel to Xaventry. Years ago, I suggested that a road be built to connect those two cities for the benefit of lowbies. I still think it's a good idea.

Speaking of cities and transport, please take a serious look at improving the efficiency and expanding the destinations for the balloon services. Do we really need to have a balloon that goes from the north end of New Rigel to the south end of New Rigel? Perhaps build a balloon platform in Xaventry and have the balloon in New Rigel go to Xaventry. Basically, it would be nice if the balloons went to more places. In connection with this, make the balloon platform in Tellerium functional.

Make housing areas in Templeton and Lowangen. All of the other major cities have housing areas.

#11 Fluke

Fluke

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 326 posts

Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

Another city that I have had recent trouble with is Darksea. There is a boss in there past the kraken guard that I was never able to reach because the kraken twarted me and now at hero I appear to be too high a level. I guess the argument I am trying to make is that wouldn't it be quaint if the last heir of the sahuagin's in darksea were to send out letters to new sahuagin once they reached level 10 or 15 (or the level required for the mini to reach the boss in our native city) requesting our aid and the opportunity to investigate our heritage? At which point one could decide to bring misery to the heir or seek the inheritance of the sahuagin?

Thus, shouldn't Darksea be larger? More rooms and shops and catered to the sahuagin much like ov is set up for ogres to excel in? More easily accessible? Perhaps a quick route from the Alyrian ocean or on Irda Isle (but a route that doesn't flow both ways)? Even more insight into the sahuagin gods of Zeqolas and Saenia? Are the two locked in conflict as one is peace and tranquility and the other raw evil? Runs drafted that focus on the exploits and efforts of these two deities? Furthermore, a boss that requires a sahuagin to be present for (again similiar to ov and the whompfish)?

It's a long way out as Esker said but since moongate has never had the implementation of a new race, why not go all out?

#12 Ithilwen

Ithilwen

    [Clan 52] Diversity

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 154 posts
  • LocationRune Estates West

Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:16 PM

]It's a long way out as Esker said but since moongate has never had the implementation of a new race, why not go all out?



( Actually, sahuagin is new. :) I'm not on the let's-get-a-new-race wagon, though, so... :whistle: )

Posted Image

MISTRESS OF SYMPHONIES • MOON MAIDEN • OWNER OF CLAN DIVERSITY


Model: Valentina Kallias, Artwork: Ithilwen

#13 Kaczia

Kaczia

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 293 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:33 PM

I know nothing about the bar exchanges, except that I can buy a bar but never get my gold back from it.



If you visit a teller with the bar in your inventory, and sayto teller exchange my bars, you get the gold value equivalent back. They do charge a nominal fee for creating the bars - but this is how you can get "free gold" from your daily rewards that so often give bars. The complaint that you cannot do this in Rune is valid and indeed annoying. But who uses Rune bank anyway with interest rates so high?!?!

Also, I agree with everything said about the gondola, Sigil shops, Templeton and Tellerium. I really hate navigating from the north-south exits of Telle. The suggestion of making the market square open up south to Gulf would make a TON of sense! The placement of the trainers is also difficult to remember, and the placement of recall in the hospital on the other side of town away from anything else of importance has always drove me nuts.

I really like the idea of an additional town between the Bazaar and ToA. It is kinda a wasteland up there.

And finally... I completely agree that the village and small-dinky-area recall ranges are way too huge! The addition of these a couple years back made the use of world gates a bit more limited as well, as the recall ranges from said wg's was therefore not to anywhere of import.

Of course, these are all just marginal inconveniences. Thanks for taking a look into them! Hopefully I'll have some time to play MM again soon :)

#14 Thror

Thror

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 373 posts

Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:03 AM

I think that, not only with cities, but in every aspect of the game, the size of the playerbase in recent times should be considered.

I'm not one to moan "oh the game is dying" or other such drama, but I do think there has been a slow and steady decline since the release of World of Warcraft and the mass appeal of the MMO.

To the extent that there is content only accessible to formations of a certain (large) size, I think these areas should either be retooled or a new game mechanic designed that would let a shrunken base still access those areas and that content.

One idea is to continue to switch areas over to scaling content, so that smaller formations can handle the damage intake and produce enough damage to win, but this does seem like an intense amount of work for the limited developer base.

Another idea is make area-specific buffs that apply benefits to a party based upon how -small- the formation is, but this would of course need to be carefully designed so it wasn't exploited for pvp, etc.

#15 Esker

Esker

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 69 posts

Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

Thanks for the feedback so far. This will probably be open for a few months, so I'm looking for a lot more responses.

#16 Rathas

Rathas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 857 posts

Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:52 AM

Frankly the main city I have an issue with is Rune, for the amount of influence and the fact that it is basically the city that every player goes to when they are first starting out, it is small.

There is little to engage or make the player feel invested in the city. While most of the cities have issues with making the player feel invested or engaged in the city it is more prevalent in Rune then anywhere else.

Now I understand how other players can have issues finding there way around in some of the other cities and in a lot of ways I agree that the layouts could be a little more logical. However I like the size of the cities and frankly the only thing really missing from those cities is more things to do in the town its self that has an in game impact on the city. Minis, events in the cities and other activities will go a long way to making the cities better and frankly will probably even help draw and keep new players.

#17 Calum

Calum

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1803 posts

Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

I like the idea of more balloons. I'd also like to see more of Sprat. Log on please :>

On the subject of the gondola, I do agree. I'd like to be patient and just chill waiting for the gondola - but I'm not. The only time I take it is for questions, and you don't actually see anything on the gondola anyway (unlike balloons).

On the topic of New Rigel, can you please make Dennar not say "Welcome to New Rigel!" when I've been there half an hour already ? Or when i walk into the room from inside the city ? It's a little thing, but still, since you asked :)

Last point, I never ever go to New Kolvir now. I understand there are rooms inside the city where you can conceivably exit from, but I don't know what they are. If you don't want to make it recallable again, could it at least be given one or two more possible exits ? That would probably encourage me to explore there again a little more.

I checked out the new Lasler schoolhouse - awesome. Many thanks.

#18 Redguard

Redguard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

The Gondola is terrible, I almost immediately turn quests in when it has to do with the canal street market area. If upper level characters could enter the water or simply levitate, that would be fantastic. Or more gondolas in general.

I think that the inn recall areas do need to be adjusted. Its an annoyance when you're trying to WoR to a major city and a little village or inn is still within range.

I really dislike how the hotair balloons (don't work) but they also cost money while the ships, a much better way to travel, costs absolutely nothing. Also, on the topic of travel, Ganuk will kick you out of the departure station for an indefinite amount of time if you accidentally give him a token twice within a short amount of time. There's no warning at all. I also feel like whenever you're "running north" on a horse on the road north of the Bazaar, you automatically run towards the Tower of Art. Shouldn't the road take you to Desert Thorne and eventually Lowangen? This is small but rather frustrating.

#19 Rathas

Rathas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 857 posts

Posted 31 January 2013 - 05:04 AM

Yah, I am with you all on the Gondola. I either turn the quest back in or cheat and cast blink till I end up there rather then use it.

#20 Calum

Calum

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1803 posts

Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

Hey. I was in Vir recently, and found a couple of locked doors. Hints for stuff in this game are a problem. Marks are often not intuitive, or well-guided enough to let people puzzle their way through them. It is fine that often people can ask others who can tell them, but it would be good often if there was some way to puzzle them out. There is at least one Rahdiyr mark that comes to mind; I am sure there are others.

Mark where can give you hints for marks, but this is not the extent of game content. Channel hint information could be updated to give hint information on many areas.

Getting back to my original point, channel hint could be used to give hints on where, for example, keys can be found for the many locked doors located in this world. Often (but not always), keys are found in completely different areas of the game. There is really nothing to connect a key which you may have found in a dungeon in Shadow Castle, for example, to a mini in Sigil Underground (I'm using this as an example - to my knowledge, no such key or connection exists. But it could, and it would not be unusual).

This occurs in Vir, as mentioned earlier, but also in other places in the game, including Dungeon Wroth. I have yet to find the key for the locked chest on Level 2 of this dungeon. I think all keys for this area are in Wroth, but yet to find them. Hints would be most welcome.

On another point, regarding towns, I want to suggest it is sometimes unnecessarily time consuming for novices to travel between towns on quests. Quests to Desert Thorne, Lowangen, Xaventry, and so on, are a case in point. I grant you that quests are meant to be hard, but thinking back to my own experience as a novice, this travel was sometimes discouraging. I haven't put much thought into this yet, but perhaps a solution might be something along the lines of novice portals, usable until level 60 ? And only open sometimes, but not always. There are the worldgates, there is the iron worm, and so on, but facilitating this a little would I think be good. I will try and develop this idea a little more, just wanted to put this up.

Thanks.

#21 Calum

Calum

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1803 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:35 AM

Regarding Lowangen, Redguard made a good point. Lowangen is more likely as a default destination at the crossroads.
Also made me think - could a shorter road to Lowangen be built ? Gnome slave labour, maybe ?
Thanks.

#22 Nemix

Nemix

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 383 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:08 PM

I wouldn't go as far to rearrange cities too much, I know my way around Rune, Tellerium and even places like Xaventry/Templeton pretty decently. It may make sense to new players (which is great) but it will displace the current player base if the changes are too vast.

Maybe it would be ideal to add a find function, similar to how you can locate shops in the Bazaar. Just do the basics, bank, post office, blacksmith, etc.

I also agree with Thror's comment to the player base, though a little off course with OP. It would be very nice to have more areas similar to the Ice Witch and Hydra's Den in scalability (even if it's just scaled with the # of players, not in level for many of the Archon runs of course)

#23 Taliesyn

Taliesyn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts
  • LocationMissouri

Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

first off, I may be repeating some things already talked about....only read a few posts.

I agree with Wabi on village zones and the gondola...don't remove the gondola just add another one in that cuts the wait time in half at least, and village zones are way to large....makes WoR bit useless when around them

New Rigel should be set up like rune....with a mayor....

On the topic of changing city layouts: what would it hurt....ya it may mess with the player base already here....but I am constantly hearing: Im bored. So with a new city layout they will have something to do lol

New kolvir: agreed...needs another exit or two and re-callable as well

that's all I can think of....for now.....

#24 Winterhart

Winterhart

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:15 AM

I read the whole post and I agree with some points brought up, however, instead of making you search for my thanks, I will cover them again for solidarity.

~~~~

NR Gondola is extremely slow. I understand wanting it to feel nice and easy and such, but the timing for today's society is that of go-go-go and so if a second Gondola were around to match the first, cutting the time in half, that would be preferable. It would have to have a gondolier as well, as there are quests that involve meeting with him.

Tellerium and Templeton : I have never bothered to learn these towns. Seriously. I can understand the rest of the towns well enough, and even though there is fluff areas, notably in NR and Xav, it doesn't impinge that much on the every day walkabout needed for buying reagants, training, and questing. Well...a little on questing but they aren't that bad. However in Telli/Temp, the cities are so huge and the desired locations so spread out, it is barely worth my time to look at a map and hunt a room. In Tellerium, the trainers are spread across in three different spread out locations I can think off off the top of my head, and in Templeton, I don't even know where they are at. I know some exist, but I could barely find the post office in Templeton the other day, I had to open a map to find a post office. Now, some of this may be just that these two towns are self-sufficient and off on the other side of the world, since the other towns are all fairly easy to get to from each other...but take it as you will.

Reagent shops should never close. Ever. Especially the only easily reachable reagent shop that sells a 1pb weight gem reagent, as the one in New Kolvir may be a little hard to reach for the standard low level player.

Multiple entrances and exits for New Kolvir on the VMap would be interesting but would diminish the power of New Kolvir a bit in my mind. However, I would like it if there was a reason to continually visit New Kolvir. How about lowering the prices on the special reagents there, as 3k gold for a single elemental reagent is outrageous. The prices on the lighter gem/eth reagants is amazing, but I won't head to the town for just those unless I can pick up all of my reagents there for a similar price as I can if I run to Sigil (Gem-Fire-Water-Earth-Air) and then to Arcane (Eth) for the same weight reagents. If the prices in New Kolvir were even slightly cheaper on the elemental types, perhaps people would go fill up their bags there, and help the PK along as well.

Ballooning to towns is very simple, but it requires gold on hand to give to the person. How about shop buy 'a balloon ticket to XXXXX' with XXXXX being whichever towns you want to connect via balloon. Triple the price of the worm, and you have a winner if you can connect NR-Lowangen-Tellerium-Xaventry-Sigil/Diocletian-Pirate's Cove. Just make it so you can only buy a ticket to the next location and then you can fly around the world faster as well. Gives the...well the topsoil world...a more connected feel. The Worm can still worm to these places, as it would be the cheaper method. Like a city bus compared to a good taxi service.

All banks should have a teller with that helpful look description explaining bars. After I returned to MM, I will confess I was confused about them until I asked about what I was supposed to do with them. or barring that description, you already have vouchers for the bazaar, why not have them give us a voucher of money which poofs money into our account? Like a Publisher's Clearing House check, eh?

The Drow city in the underground! I have been waiting for it for so long! SO LONG! I'll help develop items and room descriptions if that will help make the town get implemented faster.

A new village or city up around (775, 175) would be a welcome addition nestled in between those small mountain ranges. Could be a Dwarven city that they finally built above ground, giving plenty of room for growth. Again, I can help on ideas and such, even quests developed or altered to send one into these new zones.

Since this thread is about towns, then that is all I have for now...