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fire wyrm bugged or not I'm done since I can't progress furthur


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#1 Fishjitsu

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:11 PM

There are currently 8 other hero's that I know of that are having the same problem as I am and no one seems to care so If you're one of the heros that is currently trying to complete DoA but can't because the dreaded fire wyrm's heal script goes off excessively please speak up and post a log of what's happening during your fight and maybe someone will actually look at it.

[attachment=47]fishjitsuDOA.txt[/attachment]

#2 Duende

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:25 PM

As i told you repeatedly in troll, nothing has changed with the wyrm since 2011, and the healing in particular hasn't changed since at least 2005. Lots of people have killed the wyrm since then. I've already spent over an hour looking at it today, and there doesn't appear to be anything new or different about it. I understand you're having difficulty, but that's not the same as something needing to be changed.

#3 Rajani

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:08 AM

I appreciate you looking at it. However, I agree with fishjitsu on this. There are several heros that have given up and are on the verge of quitting due to the fire wyrm. I know you say nothing has changed, and this isn't a reason for a change. In my opinion the script + 4 defenses is the problem. Either way it goes more and more people are becoming discontent with that and its making them enjoy the game less and less.

#4 Elggs

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:22 AM

The wyrm did seem to run that heal script frequently.

#5 Sorcha

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:44 AM

i spent hrs in there last night. i got it to around 40% repeatedly, but eventually i had to leave. it does keep doing the heal script but it doesn't heal as much as time goes on, i think.

think i was just playing in too birger-like a fashion to successfully complete the trial w/ the time allotted. i don't think it's bugged. just angry and unsociable.

#6 Karnifax

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:59 AM

wow, that heal script looks as rediculous as the 4 defenses, no wonder people are losing hope

Go forth into the water, live there, die there.


#7 Fluke

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:26 AM

wabi and saskia both have completed it in the past few months...wabis a cow to boot.

if i recall correctly fish is a druid/monk, so water invo and HE? no clue what the problem is. get more trunks to spam HE?

its a long truly annoying fight but at least he spawned and u didnt need detect illusion to find his room.

#8 Karnifax

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:10 AM

ermmm, you do realise that there was a lag added to use of HE right? just because of the lag factor i almost thing using flamewind would be a more viable option, since last i had checked, they both do a form of the same type of damage.

Go forth into the water, live there, die there.


#9 Zaini

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:22 PM

In my opinion the script + 4 defenses is the problem.



I agree with this 100%.

When I was doing DOA there was a reboot while I was working on level 7, killing the cyclone. Everything was going OK - making slow but steady progress, but I had to stop due to the reboot. With this reboot the haste change came into effect (as it effects NPCs, giving them an extra defense as I understand it). This change wasn't documented anywhere, so when I was back in fighting the cyclone in DOA (having seen the difference pre and post reboot) I was convinced that there was a bug giving it an extra defense. Vass and Duende both came into DOA to investigate the mob, and told me that there was no bug, everything was fine. I died trying to kill it, and in further conversations with another Imm (I forget who) I learned about the haste change that was implemented in that reboot (this was in June 2011).

The cyclone now had 3-4 defenses almost every round. I could hardly get a single hit in. It took me FOUR hours of fighting this one mob to kill it. I'd finally get it low, but then because it had been so long of me fighting it the heal-script would kick in, and put it right back up to 70-90%. I nearly gave up so many times, but my friends kept telling me to keep at it. My fingers and neck were numb, and I decided I would never do DOA again. I eventually did finish (this is my 2nd, and final, archon) but it was significantly more difficult than it was on Kaczia, or even with Zaini before this particular reboot.

The 3-4 defenses on each round for the NPCs in DOA completely changed the difficulty of the mobs - I saw it first hand. DOA was already difficult for my low-damage-output, no-slow and no-dispel-magic path... but IMO four hours on a single mob is just too much. It's discouraging and makes playing the game, which should be fun, feel like a job.

It took me several hours to complete level 8 as well for the same reason - I'd spend ~45 minutes working on just one NPC to get a tablet. I just couldn't get hits past their defenses each round. I wound up relying on TKE and other damage spells, which took a long time (especially with hero SP and low regen, and having to heal too). I did DOA in December 2009 with Kaczia, and again in June 2011 with Zaini - so I saw the difference in DOA albeit on two different path types (Kacz was WAY easier for me).

I think DOA SHOULD be difficult. It should be a measure of a character's strength, dedication and aptitude. But there is a fine line between challenging gameplay and discouraging annoyance.

With a faltering player base (given a bit of a boost with the amazing SD/Aura change which brought me out of hibernation), we need to do everything in our power to maintain and promote Archoning, rather than create further distress. The ethos displayed by many people in this game is disappointing and altogether negative, as is demonstrated in this log. The creation of more difficult gameplay in conjunction with changes like the dust emoting counterspell from hunters and elimination of out-of-combat healing on unformed players (who are not involved in PK) ultimately leads to decreased activity, decreased player morale and an altogether discouraging environment… all of which the game as a whole is experiencing the effects of now.

Just to be clear, I am in support of the vast majority of changes that have been implemented over the years (I support the AR change for example) and I generally emphasize with the complexities of management and the inane, often petty problems that face our Immortal staff on a daily basis. But we desperately need to be moving in the OPPOSITE direction to create a more positive, encouraging culture if this game has any hope of survival. And I hope it does.

#10 Fishjitsu

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:53 PM

@fluke It's immune to HE/Flame wind this time.

Even Though I said That I was giving up I attempted to fight him again last night starting at 11pm and going until 4am. I ended up killing him about 5 times over. I managed to even get it as low 46% until it spooked me out got hit by spook lag and got instantly spooked again into a form of a ash fox and rock spider and died. My Courage is maxed so I don't understand why I get spooked so easily but that's besides the point. I've now spent a good 3 weeks (24+ hours of game play) trying to kill this mob and when I think of what I can accomplish doing other things in 24 hours I'd rather start doing those others things. I really much enjoy this mud but I simply can't commit 5-8 hour grinds and not accomplishing anything. I want to archon this character and should have no problem in doing so since I have an amazing class path built for survival. I know what it takes to archon as I've done it 3 times before this and none of those times took more then 24 hours of gameplay in total. Who knows I might try again but the ps3 and its fine content of visual stimulating games are starting to look a lot more appealing to me now if I'm going to commit a solid grind into something. On a funny note when I saw a double heal that took it from 50% to 70% I wanted to throw my laptop across the room.

With all that being said the trolls can take this a me complaining but that's not the case I'm simply stating the facts and trying to protest what I can to help the longevity of a game that I rediscovered a passion in playing again. But like I said that passion is slowly becoming a hatred for this game.

#11 Crysknife

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:54 PM

I can see the point of 4 defenses on NPCs meant to be fought by formations. But you can't form in DoA...

Also, seeing players as Nahway and Fishjitsu give up is really not encouraging for less experienced players like myself.

#12 Bloodrose

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:23 PM

Just to be clear, I am in support of the vast majority of changes that have been implemented over the years (I support the AR change for example) and I generally emphasize with the complexities of management and the inane, often petty problems that face our Immortal staff on a daily basis. But we desperately need to be moving in the OPPOSITE direction to create a more positive, encouraging culture if this game has any hope of survival. And I hope it does.



I really like everything you said Zaini. At this point and state of the game we need to do what is possible within reason of course, to make people enjoy their gaming experience and love the game that we love. Newer players seeing old players want to quit over a mechanic that they will face at some point has to be really discouraging. I just hope this thread gets somewhere, its sad to see people quit over something so easily remedied.

#13 Notorious

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:05 PM

I don't think the healing script is the problem at all. More so the every single high level mob needs to have 4 defenses train of thought we seemed to have moved to at one point or another. Soloing a high damage NPC with 4 defenses is a bit absurd if you ask me, it leaves you to resort to bash/spell damage flee for the duration of the fight.

#14 Dreven

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:46 PM

I think Zaini summed the problem up well. I do like some of the recent changes, some not so much but the problem is that sight of the fact that this is a game and should be fun has been lost. The players input seems to be blown off for the most part. From evolving items that no one wants or uses to mobs or runs that few can do and those who can dont want to. Changes like dust clouds or relics making gear bind dont make the game more fun. I could go on but will just leave it at this, if a game isnt enjoyed by the players they will stop playing.

#15 Keegan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

Nice to know that the wyrm is still an arsemaggot. lol.......

#16 Fishjitsu

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:10 PM

Here's another log of me wasting my time for the last time.

[attachment:1]C:\fakepath\waste of time.txt[/attachment]

#17 Fishjitsu

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:20 PM

[attachment=48]wasteoftime1.txt[/attachment]

#18 Duende

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:50 AM

The wyrm's healing script can be negated in a new way, with some extra work. I'll let you discover the hint and method, added for reboot.

#19 Floyd

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:57 AM

Flooding the wyrms room should result in a sauna.

Does that mean bottling the domain will result in the wyrms healing script un-nullifiable?

#20 Xash

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 03:27 PM

hey guys i just wanted to add to this thread.

fire wyrm is impossible this mob is so obviously broken that no one will archon ever i dont even see why people try to kill it no archons have ever killed this if only duende tried to fight it he would see for himself everyone who archoned before just used cheats or exploited it how else could they even do it ever i cant kill this mob and i am the best at this game

heres a log of me doing my best and still being unable to kill this overpowered cheating mob

http://annwn.info/file/2234

#21 Few

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:18 PM

I have a log somewhere of doing DoA but... This is of this character.

1: 1 2011-12-07 03:01 am
61: 241 2012-01-20 09:43 pm

I'm somewhat a veteran, have been around since 96' believe it or not. Archoned characters in I think 02', 05', 07', and 12'. This character was the easiest to do it, but I'd contribute that to second defense/leech conduit/leech.

The attitude that it's too hard is kind of moot. It's supposed to be hard, but I will agree that 4 defenses is just stupid for any NPC that has to be done solo.

Fishjitsu ~ Something I noticed, your accuracy is very low. I see 66% in the log, it would probably be worth taking a damage hit to find a spear or something as close to 90%+ or figure out why it's so low, the log is very long and I just skimmed it.

#22 Erithiaen

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

I have a recollection of Wabi (minotaur, fire vuln) beating the wyrm just fine, fairly recently. I don't think DOA gets changed very regularly, and although it may seem hard, it's meant to be. There are plenty of tactics to be used. This guide has been very recently updated with ideas and tips if anyone else is having trouble.

http://www.orderofch...f_Arbaces_Guide

#23 Vaticus

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 12:46 PM

I know I'm several months behind on this subject but I just had to comment after just seeing it again.

You have to laugh at this entire thread and the fact that several of the heroes complaining in it still haven't finished DOA. The lava wyrm was the hardest part of the entire process for me and many others, and even having said that, my biggest frustration was always the random scattering of rock spiders, lockable doors, dizzy nomagic rooms, etc. I'm definitely not advocating that anything be changed, because if I was able to complete the process as a human (other than the last/doll floor, which I did as dwarf) then none of these crybabies should be afforded an easier go of it. It's not impossible to kill the wyrm, but it might be if you are one of these heroes with no mastered weapons or adequate armor though. It seems like there is a great slew of people that have mark/bk leveled and rushed to 240 and are not at all ready to try DOA. As I recall, I had to just use a couple of axes and brute strength the thing. We can't all be valk witches and do it easymode style.

I can think of many archons that were able to duo much of the harder parts of DOA back when simultaneous players could be in there. Maybe that should be re-enabled for the whiners.

#24 Floyd

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:09 PM

Well, valkwitch is unfair sure... but-if an elf can do it no doubt a gnome can.

Fire wyrm is the best part. Just learn to time fleeing. Know how to regenerate.

I did it with no mastered weapons and crap gear as a weak arms paladin. Ohya, no guild pins either. How you ask? Cure critical, proper application of debuffs and ???

Success.

Doll level is the best. =>

DoA sets the role of the game. If you cannot pass it-you will not be killing your own hunters.

I think it is fine as is. Seriously think the way to reduce fire wyrm regent should be removed.

#25 Rascon

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:47 AM

Word coming down the pipe from admin is that the wyrm was always meant to have 4 defenses and that through recent changes and fixing of bugs it has been made to actually have them. I know a year ago when I archoned it didnt have 4 defenses, through certain circumstances I killed the wyrm 4 times within a few days and 2 out of the 4 it was imped, I wouldnt want to do it while the wyrm had 4 defenses though. I feel bad for anyone that has to rely on melee damage to kill this mob, because Its not even worth making the trip to DOA anymore if this is your only method to damage the mob.