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#1 Vudd

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:49 PM

It's not for me its for a friend....

Actually to save a lot of time and frustration for new players what paths are the best to start out.




First classes shown first

Ranger Barbarian or Valk Priest Bard/Shaman

Valk Monk Druid Bard/Rogue (Rogue first is a lot easier)

etc.



There is nothing worse than spending lots and lots of time as a newbie and realizing the path you have selected kind of blows.

If every newbie is an alt i guess it is not needed :evil:

#2 Aggression

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:50 PM

From my experiences, the best class paths are those that are well balanced and well rounded, meaning that they are decently strong both in PvE and PvP, depending on the player's playing style and ability to devote oneself to actually completing what needs to be completed to make that character decently strong. For simplicity, the following classpaths are listed as (warrior)/(cleric)/(mage)/(thief).


barbarian/priest (or shaman)/wizard/rogue
barbarian/priest (or shaman)/psionic/bard
barbarian/priest (or shaman)/ranger/bard
barbarian/druid/monk/rogue (or bard)
*Any of the above class-paths could also use either Cavalier or Valkyrie for their warrior class as well and be just as balanced.

Paladin/druid/wizard/rogue
Paladin/druid/psionic/rogue (or bard)
Paladin/witch/psionic/rogue
Paladin/witch/ranger/bard

As for which class to do first, that is solely up to the player, but for new players, I suggest choosing a warrior class for a first class. For those that have played a little bit and know something about combat and something about the game, choosing one of the thief classes may be a good idea. I would not recommend choosing a mage or cleric class for your first class unless you are more familiar with the game and the dymanics of playing a mage or cleric. The exception to these suggestions would be the Ranger class. The ranger class is excellent for a first class, especially for a new player, as it is very balanced between fighting capabilities, magical abilities, and basic utility.

Also keep in mind the attributes of the race that you choose, and remember that the first class you choose, the primary attribute gets a +3 boost to it, while your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th classes will only give you a +2 boost to the class's primary attribute. An example of this would be saw if you choose to play a minotaur or drow, but you want 25/25 agility at Archon; to get this, choose either rogue or ranger as your first class, and that will bring your agility to 23, which will be boosted 2 more when you reach archon.

The 4 most important attributes to consider are:

Strength (affects how much you can carry and how much damage you can cause with each hit with a weapon)
Vitality (determines HP regeneration capabilities)
Agility (determines how often you hit your opponent, and how often you defend against your opponent)
Sanity (determines spell-point regeneration and your ability to complete casting a spell)

Classes that should never be coupled together:

Paladin/Priest
Paladin Shaman
Paladin/Monk
Priest/Monk
Shaman/Monk
Ranger/Rogue

*Any of these class couplings can still be strong, but it is harder to accomplish due to many overlaping skills or spells.

Proven class-paths:

Barbarian/Druid/Monk/Bard = I would recommend going either Barbarian first to boost fighting skills and HP early on, or going Monk first to build a solid base in defenses and some basic spells early on. Druid can be done early, but I would suggest druid second class if going barbarian first class. This path is also strong with the Valkyrie class as well, instead of barbarian.

Barbarian/Shaman/Wizard/Rogue = Well rounded, this path is your very basic path, with little complexities and is well rounded, with the exception being a small lack of non-magic based extra damage. Rogue and bard are interchangeable in this path, but bard overlaps some with wizard spells. Priest is also interchangeable with shaman here. The drawback is that the path is very reagent heavy and spell-book heavy and requires a lot of memorization.

Barbarian/Ranger/Priest/Bard = Well balanced, and very newbie-friendly, and has both spell-damage and non-spell-damage that can be used to cause extra damage. Barbarian is interchangeable with valkyrie and cavalier with this path, and priest is interchangeable with shaman as well.

Regarding Psionics and knaves, I'm not very familiar with either. Somebody else may be able to give advice regarding either of those classes.

Witch is an excellent class, but it is definately not for the new player.

#3 Floyd

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

Paladin stacks well with both priest and monk if the player is competent.

However, Paladin offers little in the dynamics of first class, new player ability. Searing touch... hmm. It may be discouraging class for novice or inexperienced players. Especially at low levels. I believe the mini quest for consecrate weapon requires third class to do.

While having a few cures and sanctify it lacks on the end of interaction. This disappears towards endgame however.

Witch is decent, after all of the more recent changes to npc the witch class is even more novice friendly. The only downside is the plethora of spells having issues. There was a rumor necromancer guile was required to improve some of the spells to their claimed strengths per help file. I can not confirm this.

Choosing cleric and mage classes are typically easier to play than you make it seem. Per mages and clerics both getting methods of damage by low cost, low complexity spells for first class. More low level playability than some warriors.

If the player is willing to put in the extra effort to overcome the low level lack of strength, I would advise min/maxing. Which for clarity is choosing the class that gives your race the most beneficial stat gain first class. It helps strengthen your character in the end. At the cost of being low HP/stamina until enough pp has been spent to overcome this. As a ranger, this was very nice.

Finally, wizard witch is a very powerful class combination. This was overlooked.

In closing, any path is powerful with the right player behind it. All of these generalities are just that. The best thing for a new player to do(especially after all the low level tweaks) is to make a few characters. Play around until level thirty or so and get a feel for how each class functions. This can be done over a week of casual playing. That way there is less chance of "oh man... third class and I picked this? I hate this!!"

#4 Aggression

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:20 PM

I agree that the wizard/witch combo can be very strong, but it requires paladin to balance the path, which means that the only race that can choose this path, is human. From my experiences, human is by far the worst race in the game due to the low attributes and averaged stats. If drow could go paladin (I've suggested this years ago) then drow would be an excellent race for the path. If Sahuagin could go wizard (like every other race in MM) it would be an excellent race for it as well.

I agree it is best to pick a class that gives the best initial advantage to the character, but I also suggest the newbie toying around with the races and classes a bit to get a feel for the dynamics of playing in mm and the commands and combat and all.

#5 Floyd

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

Well, drow are dark typically. Why tuna race got paladin is beyond me.

I fully agree with your sentiments. Human is a tad squishy in the race mill. The religious bonus is great for priests and dira followers though. Fear the overpowered respawn rate too.

While that is a more closed debate being selected to two paths and one race, I personally feel any paladin witch combo should be human only. That was the drawto select human. Why it got handed out to a new race is hard to comprehend. Not to mention an evil race who is large.

Back to the original topic; the best thing to do is find your favorite choice of each class. Then pick a race that best compliments a stack of all those classes.

Gnome seems to be the rage these days, if your path is supported there. Just about anyone can play that race. Saves, resistances, regens extremely fast.

On the other end-if you want raw power, minotaur and ogre can deal large amounts of it in a short time.

Drow and elf both support heavy spells stack up.

Halfling, after the attack speed change kind of got hosed. No that they were gnome overpowered before, they were strong.

Dwarf seems to be a solid selection if gnome will not hold your path choice. Just pay someone for a divusmors helm and suddenly-no worries. I still feel races should not be able to remove vulnerabilities. Again-different topic.

Basically, the farther away from human you get, the better the races tend to be.

Dracon gets a nice ar bonus and slash damage with hand-to-hand combat. Unfortunately, they have I think four, maybe six total path choices and very low sp.

Witch is playable without paladin or monk. Just more difficult; relying on scripts, potions, blood dance and convocation can be problematic at times. Recommended for only the more hardened players.

All in all, most classes and races are balanced. Some are completely hosed with recentish changes. Halfling, Fey, Sidhe and Human are typically less played these years. Mostly due to attack/defense speed, drowning changes and well... being the base of everything. Human is the jack of all trades. Can do anything. Unfortunately they are not even second best.

#6 Shinde

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:45 PM

I think rather than specific paths, some guidelines about what to avoid might be more helpful. Keep in mind you can ignore basically all of these and do fine, it's just going to take more skill, or require you to work around the missing skill(s).

Cure blind is a skill you don't want to be without. A druid or witch who does not take either monk or paladin will not get this spell and will have to look into alternative means of handling blindness. Completely doable, but is something you will have to eventually deal with.

Out-of-Combat cures are very nice, you can get by without them, but this is something all clerics, except witch get. Witches again can pair with monk or paladin to pick up cure light.

Regen retarding debuffs: poison and plague. These are immensely helpful in PvM and not having them can make you life very difficult. The reduce the rate mobs (and players) regenerate hp (and sp/st) on ticks. All cleric classes except druid get poison and plague, so only a druid needs to worry about getting it from their mage class. Wizards an monks get both poison and plague, psi's have a unique form of plague in irritation, rangers lack both poison and plague.

Armor (AR) Buffs. Getting 100 AR (or more) at the end game is something you're going to want to do. Better AR buff combos give a higher total +AR and make you less reliable on equipment for armor, and free up more options for equipment, or give more of a buffer for AR debuffs.
The following AR buffs exist, those that are equivalent are on one line:
Armor (+3)/Aegis(+4?)/Guise of Nature (+?*)
Shield (+9)/Ice Invocation(+8)/Force Field(+9)
Stone Skin (+7)/ Ooze Invocation (+7)
Shadow Armor (+5)
Combat Blink (+7, drains sp)
Telekinetic Shield (+3 drains sp)

Quick who gets what:
Armor: Paladin, Priest, Shaman, Wizard, Monk
Shield: Wizard, Bard
Force Field: Psi
Ice Invo: Druid
Stone Skin: Wizard, Ranger
Ooze Invo: Druid
Aegis: Paladin
Guise of nature: Ranger
Shadow Armor: Witch
Tk Shield: Psi
Combat Blink: Monk

* Only gives +AR if you are sufficiently resistant to wood.
IIRC these are the values at Archon. You can also get armor, stone skin, and shield from items, but they may not be the same level and thus give less AR. Psi and ranger end up with fewer AR buff options (Psi only has shield-equiv + tk-shield that drains sp. Ranger only gets stone skin and guise of nature which needs +wood-res on equipment or racially to get AR from).

AR debuffs are also important, they allow you to increase you damage output across the board. Witches have several options for AR debuff, shamans have curse and faerie fire, and priests have condemn (and excommunicate, which doesn't lower AR, but is in the curse family). Wizard and monk gets curse and ranger gets faerie fire. You likely want at least one out of faerie fire and curse (though they do stack).

Web prevents a mob or player from moving out of the room (and fleeing!). You most likely want some form of web. Ranger and wizard both get the spell web. Druids have earth evocation and psionics have mesmerize. Monks are the only mage class without some form of web.

Blindness lowers accuracy, makes it hard (if not effectively impossible) to navigate and prevents the use of targets spells and skills. Wizard, monk, and witch all get the spell and it's available as a herbal mixture to monks and rangers. Druid gets smoke evocation and psi's get disrupt sight. This means every path has some form of blindness, but rangers must rely on mixtures for it unless they go druid. That said, mixes are very good: they offer a way to blind without the use of sp in combat.

Less important things:
Slow removes and attack and a defense from you opponent. This both means they take more damage and deal less. Wizards and Monks both get the spell form and bards get the song hinder. While less important than the above, it's certainly a useful debuff to have.

Riding is a passive accuracy boost you can use wherever you can take a mount. All fighter classes except barbarian get it, and ranger is the only non-fighter who has the skill.

For the most part the fighter classes are quite similar. Barbarian and cavalier are focused more on higher damage output, while valk and paladin are more defensively minded. Equipment choices really make more of a difference in the end here anyway.

Bash is a useful skill for increasing damage output, countering spells, and dealing with locked doors. Every path would be better with it, Barbarian and Cavalier both get it, as does shaman, monk, and rogue.

In short:
You want to avoid:
Witch + !Monk + !Paladin = No cure blind, no out-of-combat cure
Druid + Ranger = No Poison or Plague
Druid + Psi = No curse or faerie fire

You should consider:
Monk + Witch = No form of web
Ranger + !Druid = No castable form of blindness
Psi or Ranger + !Bard = No slow
Barbarian + !Ranger = No riding
Valkarie or Paladin + !(Monk or Shaman or Rogue) = No Bash

Now, enough about classes. Various races will be complemented/will complement various classes and paths by differing amounts. High-strength low-sp races will want to focus on non-spell damage dealing and debuffs that are either un-resistible or hard to resist. Herbalism lets you deal extra damage, cure debuffs, and inflict some debuffs without spending precious sp in combat. The cost is you have to pre-prepare mixtures and sprigs and mixes take up inventory space. Higher sp-races can leverage that to their advantage by using a wider array of debuffs, use damage spells to tip things in their favor and exploit weaknesses, and can heal themselves for a longer time.

This is just a short summary of what I could think of off the top of my head. I'm sure others have other guidelines to add.

#7 Floyd

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

Aegis is 5ar/3svs.

Shadow armor is 6.

Guise will give 4ar. Outdoors only and requires a sizable wood%.

Witch contains the spell blind.

Hinder currently is non functioning. Seemingly it is being adjusted to factor vs attack and defense speed in place of the savings checks it currently uses for a chance to remove attack/defense. Notably it also affects regent and the affects of poison(and other similar spells).

Ranger druid is an amazing stack. This oath simpy lacks in poison/disease spells. Ranger can utilize quivers+archery to poison. However there are no disease arrows. This has been mentioned along with other quivers to produce a larger variant of affects.

Valkyrie lends itself as the damage sponge. Enduring long fights. One of the most popular choices.

Paladin lacks any melee ability in itself. No unique weapons. In place they receive a generic list of priest spells, one damage spell(which seems to not function well in any use excluding a holy vulnerable opponent) and a handful of unique and semi-unique spells. This class is putty to make a few other classes more self contained and less reliant on items.

Cavalier is the mounted warrior. Powerful with their lance and tend to heal quickly. They receive a few useful melee attacks including bash.

Barbarian is all mess no finess. Being equipped as the powerhouse class they can muscle just about anything into submission, aptly able to lay out any weakened opponent.

Shaman and priest are very similar. Only a few core differences. Bread and butter all around useful cleric.

Druid is selfish and uses no books. Typically classed with Valkyrie/monk or paladin. They are unique.

Witch are about debuffing. Leech being their only heal they are rather limited. While convocating with a full shadow imp can restore health, this is extremely slow. Best if done with a large formation of witches. However only one witch will be healed. This path is about making your target suffer.

The mages are broken down simply.

Monks are more martial artist than mage. Handed a large variety of useful spells, martial arts and bash they can accomplish many task. Herbalism there for even more help. They lack web, which can be annoying.

Wizard has all the spells. All utility. Powerful in the hand of someone intelligent.

Rangers are crafty, given many debuffs and a few rogue skills. Snare, tracking. They have archery which is unique and useful. Not very powerful unless using a crossbow. Constantly drains spell power. Good for NPC's.

Psionic are silent casting mages. No memorization and hardly any reagents. They can be down right vicious. Irritation is a spell worth having.

Rogue is utilitarian. Many skills including bash, throwing, track and snare. Evasion helps a lot when exploring.

Bard receives music allowing them many wizard spells. Opens up a narrow class path with hinder, shield and a few attack spells. Some unique.

Knaves are lowlife trouble makers. They box, lie and steal. Slits, strikes, raise skills. Very powerful.

#8 Toothgnasher

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:32 AM

Tell your "friend" to do whatever strikes his fancy.

#9 Csia

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:12 AM

Idiots and 120's, then Toothgnasher is the voice of reason.

I must be getting old.