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Enforced RP.


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#1 Damone

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:39 PM

Before we get started on this topic, I would just like to say that I think everyone should try their best to be as open minded about this as possible. I understand that most of us here at MM have rejected something like this for a long time. I have been guilty of mocking new players for trying to RP in the world of Alyria as have others. However, in my defense.. they were just rping in a world of their own creation, rather than using the world around them for development.

I know that Vassago has long encouraged RP from the playerbase, but I think it may be time to take a step forward and slowly make adjustments to enforce role-play. I think it would be best to slowly make these changes so that everyone can adjust to them, rather than have it all dropped into their laps at once. I have spoken to a handful of players over the last few months, not as large a group as I would like to have spoken to, but large enough to lead me to believe there are two groups that will develop from this idea. 1) The nay-sayers. 2) The ones who will roll with it if it increases player activity.

I believe that this would be one of the most important changes to extend the life of MM. It would draw a new crowd to reinforce what is already here. If the current playerbase could put aside their distaste for RP (as this seems to be a fairly common thing here) and realize that they actually ARE playing an RPG, things could go rather smoothly.

I have been playing another MUD since May and have grown rather fond of it. The RP isn't overly corny and while it is heavily enforced, if you don't want extensive RP, all you have to do is keep your conversations short and sweet. The social chat rooms of MM would be a good place to keep OOC (out of character conversations) bottled up so that they have less affect on actual game play. For some players, RP might be something they wish to excel at, yet those of us who wish to pvp will still have the ability to do so, and adding a bit of RP to pvp only makes it that much more fun. As for runs, I feel the way things are set up here, those could play right in the hand RP in a great way, as I believe MM has a rich history and excellent areas in which to explore.

I feel that any MUDer that enjoys RP could come to MM and be blown away by all the advanced coding and mechanics this MUD has to offer, not mention the history and all the content that would keep any new player busy for quite a long time.

To make this work, there truly would need to be quite a few changes, but I think these changes could be achieved without truly changing much about the game itself, other than some tweaks here and there and some new rules to explain the enforcement and what not. For this to succeed, we as a player base would have to embrace this change and allow the staff to make the proper adjustments to make it all work smoothly.

RP will only enhance the game play of MM as long as our dedicated players embrace this. Again, I ask you all to be as open minded as possible, rather than push it aside. As long term players, we have the advantage in the fact that we know the history of MM and the areas within the game better than any new player will. With this knowledge we can help shape the RP so that it's not a bunch of corny newbies sitting around in rune forest pretending to be dragon slayers etc etc. We all dislike change, but I think it is about time that MM takes this step with seriousness and looks at it as a goal to increasing the playerbase. Keep in mind that once such changes are in place, advertising on different mud forums will be very necessary to lure experienced MUDers here.

A good MUD should have strong RP, pvp and pve involvement. The only thing MM has been lacking is the RP. I feel it is time for us to end that and put them all together. I believe that MM could be, by far, the best MUD out there if this is fully embraced by the staff and the players.

I'll go ahead and end this, as I could go on and on. Please take the time to read what I have said and really think about it before responding on impulse.

#2 Ease

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:56 PM

I'm a bit torn on this subject... I do like the idea of 'Role-Playing' in general, but at the same time from experience in real life, I find most arseholes don't advertize that fact about themselves... Why should we make it different 'in-game'? Do you really expect people to tell you, 'I can't be trusted, because I take advantage of others, but play along & let me take advantage of you, & your naivety, because you're low level (thus new), & should RP that out'?

#3 Sprat

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:13 AM

Hey Damone, nice to hear from you.

When you talk about enforced RP, I assume you mean only the public channels - say, yell, shout, global shout - right? I don't see how you could enforce tells or clan chat or alliance chat, or how that would even be desirable.

If you are referring only to the public channels I mentioned, I guess I wouldn't personally have a big problem with that. I also assume that RP doesn't necessarily mean we would have to speak in Shakespearean English. Verily, t'would be a pity if t'were the case!

However, on a somewhat related note, I do think that the character name requirements should be very strictly enforced. From the "Creating Your Character" entry here on this site: "You should use a name that fits into the medieval-like theme of the game." This is rarely enforced, as far as I know.

#4 Rascon

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 08:27 PM

Well, I've heard it said that RP may be the only thing to save this game in the long term. While this may be the case, it is also very probably the case that enforcing something that is unwanted on a dwindling player-base will disenfranchise probably close to a majority of the players that HAVE stuck around, and the game would be in worse shape than it is now player-activity wise. I guess the bright side is even though you have lost a lot of your players through enforcing of RP, a LONG ways down the road you would be able to recover what you lost and start making gains in the player-base arena. I, for one, am not going to stick around to play a game that is RP enforced.
I believe there are other ways to pick up our activity without disenfranchising some of our most loyal players. The new admin is on the right track right now, it is going to be a long uphill climb but through numerous conversations with the admin I am happier now with the direction and the focus of the admin then I have been in a long long time.
Its going to be a while before we are (almost) all happy with the state of affairs like we may have been in the past. I suggest we all do a little more to save the game we all love (or have loved at one point).

*Remember to vote for MM every 12 hours
http://www.topmudsit...eriamagica.html
*Reach out to people who used to play to bring them back
*Create posts on boards around the internet.
*Get on other muds/games and tell people you meet there about MM.
*Post on your FB for your friends to check it out.
*Create YouTube content and pass the links around.
*Give Gnomar a wedgie whenever you see him.

Also consider, if you have skills that you could offer, it never hurts to do so. I know they are looking for someone with some talent for webdesign to redo the website sometime in the near future, and even if its nothing more than giving some of your ideas and input, that helps.

Ohh, anyways, back to the topic.. RP yeah i can see the benefits but I don't want it enforced and neither to a lot of our current players who have been very loyal to the game. It may be too risky...

#5 Damone

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:17 AM

Well, I've heard it said that RP may be the only thing to save this game in the long term. While this may be the case, it is also very probably the case that enforcing something that is unwanted on a dwindling player-base will disenfranchise probably close to a majority of the players that HAVE stuck around, and the game would be in worse shape than it is now player-activity wise. I guess the bright side is even though you have lost a lot of your players through enforcing of RP, a LONG ways down the road you would be able to recover what you lost and start making gains in the player-base arena. I, for one, am not going to stick around to play a game that is RP enforced.
I believe there are other ways to pick up our activity without disenfranchising some of our most loyal players. The new admin is on the right track right now, it is going to be a long uphill climb but through numerous conversations with the admin I am happier now with the direction and the focus of the admin then I have been in a long long time.
Its going to be a while before we are (almost) all happy with the state of affairs like we may have been in the past. I suggest we all do a little more to save the game we all love (or have loved at one point).

*Remember to vote for MM every 12 hours
http://www.topmudsit...eriamagica.html
*Reach out to people who used to play to bring them back
*Create posts on boards around the internet.
*Get on other muds/games and tell people you meet there about MM.
*Post on your FB for your friends to check it out.
*Create YouTube content and pass the links around.
*Give Gnomar a wedgie whenever you see him.

Also consider, if you have skills that you could offer, it never hurts to do so. I know they are looking for someone with some talent for webdesign to redo the website sometime in the near future, and even if its nothing more than giving some of your ideas and input, that helps.

Ohh, anyways, back to the topic.. RP yeah i can see the benefits but I don't want it enforced and neither to a lot of our current players who have been very loyal to the game. It may be too risky...



(Keep in mind that I am suggesting this as a gradual change, nothing instant. This will allow the loyal players to slowly get a feel for it and have an open minded opinion based on actual game play, not one based off of speculation.)

I hear you Rascon. It is the players with your attitude about this topic that I am asking to be opening minded. I can completely understand where you are coming from as I had the same mind set about this very thing myself. If I hadn't logged onto another MUD to pass the time when MM was offline one day, I would probably still hold the same mind set. However, I believe if those of you who truly are opposed to this attempt to try the nameless MUD I have mentioned, I think you may find that an enforced RP environment can actually work quite well without being annoying or retarded. In no way do I want to get anyone to actively play this nameless MUD as I would love to see MM thrive. I have said the same thing on the message boards of this nameless MUD as well. I do not wish to see their playerbase come to MM, certainly not at this point either. Their outlook would be much like yours. They would enjoy the mechanics of MM, for the most part, but would not agree with the OOC influence with game play. I would not suggest anyone go to another MUD solely for the purpose of recruitment.. How would you feel if some rogue MUDer came here and tried that? If players go to others MUDs, I hope it would be in an effort to learn and bring new ideas to MM, not in hopes of restoring the playerbase. There are other more ethical ways of doing that.

Sprat: No man, I'm not talking Channel RP. That would be very lame and serve little to no purpose as far as game-play is concerned. That is the kind of RP I find completely silly. If I had not been playing in a world created around this concept, I would not even be discussing this right now. I found it fun and a lot less.. awkward/forceful than one might imagine. It actually enhances the game-play of the world that has been created for us to explore and conquer.

Ease: I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Like I said.. this is an all in or nothing type of thing. An evil aligned player can try their best to take advantage of you all they like as it fits their alignment, however, there are certainly limits to everything. Say this person isn't playing IC and using OOC motivation to do something bad.. log it, submit it and watch them get punished if they are truly violating any rules. As far as level is concerned, there should be a level of respect given to all players, this is what will help keep new players around. Frankly, all the ridiculous conversations I see on channels such as pktalk seem to detract from the game itself.. not really sure why anyone would log on just for those off the wall antics.

I have seen both sides. MM and my nameless MUD are both very good for very different reasons. I feel that if there were any way at all to smash them together that it would make the best gaming experience for any player as far as MUDs are concerned. The nameless MUD has found a great way to intertwine RP with actual game play so that it is a natural thing and can be policed relatively clean. MM has the game mechanics and, though I have not come close to exploring that enitre world, I believe MM has a richer landscape. If MM can somehow manage to create an RP environment very similar to the nameless MUD I keep bringing up, I think it would be an amazing thing for all MUDers to experience.

As for other things to help... I think MM needs to go back to a simpler time. Sometimes less options are better. For some reason this makes me think of the show, 'Kitchen Nightmares'. Having a million options can actually hurt the game rather than help it. Making the core pieces work like a well oiled machine is the key to making game play enjoyable.

As far as what I've seen from the new staff, I am encouraged that MM will begin to slowly heal over time. I understand that a change such as I am referring to will be a ways down the road as they have their hands full dealing with fixing bugs etc. I wish everyone could have experienced what I have, if for nothing else.. so everyone would be on the same page and understand exactly what I'm getting at. Anyway, I look forward to hearing from others. Feel free to ask questions and explore the topic a bit more. I'm not the best at answering detailed questions, but I will certainly give it a try.

Take care guys.

#6 Acelin

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

I get what you guys are saying and everyone has valid points and opinions, but I will disagree strongly when it comes to enforced RP saving the game. I don't think it has any benefit at all in that department.

I think there are alot more obstacles to the success of this game than roleplay could ever fix. I won't turn this into one of those * is overpowered conversations or whatever, but ultimately those conversations are what it comes down to. This game is a swinging pendulum of adjustments and then new adjustments to counter the old adjustments and we never quite find the elusive middle ground. Speaking from experience, I've spent 5-10 years building a character on two seperate occasions only to see the gameplay that all my effort was based on dramatically changed to make my once powerful character lose it's appeal and suddenly I'm faced with the reality of either starting from scratch or (the much newer option of) spending 300 RU to respec. I understand the purpose of some of these things, for balance and whatever, but after a while it's tough to sell a game where donation items are an absolute requirement for every character you own and most of the wealth within the game exists only in the retired community or people who are able to actively play 12 hours a day without distraction. Most of the playerbase from what I would term the "glory days" are adults like me and have families, careers, and other responsibilities. You're not going to create an entirely new player base from scratch. That's a pipe dream. I wish it were that easy.


You could enforce RP and it would hardly change my opinion or willingness to play at all. In fact, if it's anything at all like character names, then it would never be enforced enough to change anything. Sorry if this seems like a rant. I would have no issues at all with a public roleplay environment and actually think it's a good thing with the right group of people. It's just in the month or so that I've made an attempt to play again.. I don't even think I've entered an area in this game that had more than 5 players in it and I hang out in Sigil/Rune/New Rigel every day.. I've seen literally a handful of yells and even less shouts.. Maybe one or two sustained conversations on archon talk. You need to save the game, then start worrying about how these non-existent active players communicate with each other.

#7 Damone

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:58 PM

Acelin, I 100% agree with what you have said. I've been talking about the RP thing a bit and throwing the idea around lately. There would be quite a lot of changes needed to make this work, not to mention bringing game stability to near 100%. When I say game stability, I'm not just talking about bug fixes, what you've said falls into that.

The middle ground in balance should have been found a very long time ago with some minor tweaks along that way that wouldn't completely ruin a character. It seems that staff changes, especially concerning Duende, have played a large role in this. Hopefully the new staff in place can clean up the mess and balance things out, but it will be a long time coming.

Other the last day or two... I think I may have to simply give up on gaming in general, as much as I don't like the idea, I need to shift my focus to RL. I'm sure I'll log on once or twice a year... lol. You guys take it easy and thank you for that reality check, Acelin.

#8 Solus

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 01:09 AM

I used to roleplay a lot while I was here. Each of my characters had a different story, and the world really did offer a lot to play off of.

Two problems I noticed was the Immortals didn't know the story of the world. In truth, we can probably blame the players for some of this. e.g., Lord Telleri is described by the Immortals as a family man; however, if you've done low level quests, you eventually get a quest where he meets his town council. Everyone of them being women he's had questionable relationships with.

As such, looking on the surface and creating a character based on what is fed to you could have you end up playing a character who goes completely against the world.

Another issue was Duende. He wanted the game to have his own story and wrote stuff that contradicts stuff that is in the game. Even when this was pointed out, he wanted to remove the old stuff so his stuff would be right.

Another problem is you don't have a choice. As an evil adventurer, I found I often had to do good to take part in parts of the game. Quests aside, there were many minis, marks, bits of exploration, and so forth that caused such problems.

#9 Shinde

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:05 AM

First, I like RP and I wish there was more RP in MM. I do think a little more RP here would be good for the game. However, I do not feel Mandatory/Forced RP is either feasible goal or good for the game.

To cite this for a spectrum of RP-ness: lets call No-RP 0 and Mandatory/Forced 3. Right now MM is about 0.5. There is little incentive to RP, and the world and general environment from the players doesn't support it and sometimes works against it, however some do RP at least in little ways. I would like to see MM move more to a 1-1.5: You are encouraged to RP, and even those who chose not to at least make a minimal effort to keep public chatter game-related and minimally induce anatopism. Good RPers would be rewarded at the by the respect of other RPers. I'm not inclined to tie material/mechanical gains to something subjective like RP. Like PK, it is an end unto itself and isn't to be rewarded. You RP for the intrinsic enjoyment of RPing, same as you should PK for the enjoyment you get out of doing it.

I think forced RP, even with a gradual progression, would drive off many players. Acelin, in this very thread, vents complaints about balance changes (more on that later). You're proposing a fundamental change to the game at almost every level that utterly dwarfs balance tweaks. You could very well be suggesting changing a turn-based strategy into a RTS. That's how drastic of a change you're proposing. I do not feel we can't really afford to lose players right now. More importantly, I don't think you can hack full-RP onto an existing game. It's not just a matter of players acting differently: fundamental changes to the game would need to occur. The entire world needs editing for coherency: areas, mobs (descriptions and interaction), quests, runs and minis would all have to be altered or outright removed to give the world self-consistency. I don't think I could possibly overstate the magnitude of the work needed to make those changes. You even say, "If I had not been playing in a world created around this concept..." (emphasis mine) The game, and the world, really should be built, from the beginning concept, to be an environment to foster RP. You praise MM for the "rich world" so much of it would have to be gutted or overhauled to work with RP, you could very well build a new game in that time and likely end up with something better for RPing.

RP takes effort, a lot more than doing crystal guilds, questing, or most other common MM playing activities normally does. I know my RP suffers heavily when I am tired, sick or distracted. I find RP a lot of fun, but very draining to perform. Maybe I do just want to blink over to Mandrake and incinerate some trolls with fireballs and not think about it? I know that if I had to keep character up I would spend less time playing simply because of the additional effort I would have to expend.

Sprat bought up "private channels" Forced RP puts them in limbo. Really, for a strong RP environment most channels would have to go, or would be relegated to OOC. Many RP-centric MUDs lack global channels entirely, or they are only for administrative purposes. At the very least PK Talk and Archon Talk would have to go, and really Clan Talk and Alliance Talk push the bounds of what sensically can exist in an RP world. Even tells would have to be re-imagined to fit. What about form talk? It's a semi-private channel, so the enforcement would be entirely up to those participating in it, and in most uses it is a channel of utility. It allows a form to coordinate it's actions and the line between OOC and IC can get very blurry. OOC communications would often be clearer and more succinct, which are valuable in combat situations.

I think a reasonable (and desirable) goal would be to enforce the rules on character names, and keeping public channels game related That is shouts, yells, pk-talk, archon talk should be about the game. They can be OOC, but still related to the game-itself. With the relay system, we can have topical channels for non-game related conversations. Talk about American football in #football, talk about how much you drank in #wherearemypants, etc. The proposal to remove pktalk (and archon talk) could work, and would push player interactions into one closer to RP and eliminate the torrent of drivel new players would be exposed to.

As for the "simpler time": I like the complex mechanics. They give depth to the game and give you various options for strategies. Really, most of the mechanics are not very complicated. The majority of the game is based off of linear formulas and a few lookup tables for slightly more complex mechanics. If you can handle Ax + B you should be able to understand most of the math. The three things that I love about MM: the depth of mechanics (which has been increased over time), the vast and ever-expanding world/content to explore, and the fact there is no single way to play the game. Forced RP would, very literally, be telling people how to play the game in a specific way.


Not to derail from the topic...
Acelin, balance is always going to be an ongoing process. It will never be fixed until content and mechanics are static. New content is part of the draw to the game for many. If you build your character specifically around a particular advantage (or set of advantages) in balance, you should expect that advantage not to last. If you wish to always "be on top" you should be prepared to spend time, effort and possibly even money to remain there. I can't think of any changes that make a previously viable character nonviable. Less powerful? Yes, but I can't think of any case where a character was rendered unable to do any end-game content even after making strategy adjustments, equipment choice alterations, and new preparations. Balance-wise MM has largely kept to the "middle-ground" I suspect you underestimate just how broken balance can be in a game. Also, look at most commercial games: they are constantly patching games for balance as long as they add new things. Only once they stop adding new content, the balance fixes will stop shortly after and that is the end of development to the game. I don't think we want to see development stop on MM.

You mention a loss of appeal, be specific, what did you lose and why was it so integral to your enjoyment of the character?

(I won't go into wealth distribution, as that's another topic.)


As for myself. I am up for RPing if approached. Shinde has a distinct personality, a backstory, a description of her appearance, and all restrung items fit into her character. However, I don't generally have that many char-char interactions that aren't of a necessarily OOC nature (eg: talking about clients, content additions/changes, game mechanics, or non-game topic). The lack of interaction is both due to my personal low activity and the low activity of the game as a whole.

#10 Damone

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 06:00 AM

I stopped reading your post shortly after you talked about how draining RP was on you in particular. I mean no disrespect and I will make the time to go back and finish it later.

However, there is one thing I would like to touch on because I'm not sure if you didn't understand what I said in our IG conversation. The other MUD I am referring to is not the same as the one your friend plays, nor is it quite what you're thinking it is. That is partially why I invited you to check it out with my guidance, so you could see for your self the differences between what I speak of and what you're thinking of. For truly strong, structured RP, I can understand THAT being draining.. such as a specific event that needs to be well played etc etc. As for general game play.. if you feel like blinking to rune forest and lighting up some trolls, there is no need to RP out a reason for doing this... If you are good aligned and they are evil, feel free to kill as you see fit. Otherwise I'm sure there are several other reasons you can come up with on the fly so that it's not draining. The fact is... I'm talking about a mixture of gaming and RP, not heavy one way or the other, but a solid mix of both. Each player will determine how heavy they go towards either spectrum of this.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond, as well as you, Solus. I promise I will take the time to finish your post, Shinde, and response to anything else that I feel compelled to touch upon.

#11 Acelin

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:03 PM

You mention a loss of appeal, be specific, what did you lose and why was it so integral to your enjoyment of the character?

(I won't go into wealth distribution, as that's another topic.)



I don't really want to start this conversation in this thread, either. I will sum it up in saying that all the things that made creating this character and the path I selected appealing have since been broken or changed. I've noticed I'm usually the only active member of my race. The other active players I knew to be dwarves before I quit have already respeced.

#12 Umaonidd

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:44 PM

i know some other dwarves.

#13 Kazmo

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:15 AM

i thought i was roleplaying....

#14 Solus

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:40 AM

Just for note, tell was explained as being telepathic.

As for PKtalk, while that is just a mechanic, I always enjoyed it back when I played since it allowed for me to interact with other players. I find this rather nice when the world is so large and there are so few people. Its not good for RP, but for actual gameplay its nice, IMO.

#15 Cinja

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:33 PM

I might be late to the party, but here goes.

I've been here less than a day, and while it's a nice place, enforced RP would make it spontaneously combust. We have NPCs that openly talk about character levels, y'know?

The random name generator suggested "Humansmasher" and "Draconcutter" as acceptable names, so I'm not surprised names are loosely enforced either.

To make this an RP Enforced MUD, we'd have to fix a whole slew of immersion-breaking things that start very early, and I don't see that happening.

I'd like to see it, mind you, but I know I won't.

#16 Codella

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:21 PM

Well, first let me say that I made my first character on MM about eleven years ago. I am one of those people eternally searching for the perfect combination and therefore keep making new characters. Just to let you know I am not as new as I look.

Secondly, yes, I have tried RP enforced muds. Several of them. Even when the mud itself was fun to play (not always the case), I hated the enforced RP. And what I hated about it was the enforcing. If two people want to pretend to have a mud family and talk about the best way to raise mud children, and the best mud school to send them to, go for it. Fine by me. Knock yourself out! Just don't FORCE me to go along with your fantasy. There are MUCKs for that sort of thing. FurryMuck has been going for probably 20 years now and they are probably discussing how to avoid mud death benefits when they pass their mud assets to their mud great-grandchildren. Awesome for them. Just don't FORCE me to join your fantasy.

You say that if you don't want to RP, you can just stay quiet. Ummmm, well, thanks for that.

You may bring some new people in, but you will drive people away as well. Yes, I would quit MM after eleven years if RP was enforced.

Thanks for listening. My 47 cents worth. (Isn't inflation a beach!)

#17 Cinja

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:51 PM

Secondly, yes, I have tried RP enforced muds. Several of them. Even when the mud itself was fun to play (not always the case), I hated the enforced RP. And what I hated about it was the enforcing. If two people want to pretend to have a mud family and talk about the best way to raise mud children, and the best mud school to send them to, go for it. Fine by me. Knock yourself out! Just don't FORCE me to go along with your fantasy.



Which MUDs have you been playing? I've been gaming for a good long time, and I've pretty much never seen anyone talk about sending their MUD children to MUD school. We're playing adventurers - by definition, we aren't the "settle down and start a family" type.

I get the feeling that you're exaggerating for effect, but when your entire point is an exaggeration, it's hard to meaningfully engage with.

#18 Codella

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:00 PM

The mud in question was Arcadia and I am not exaggerating,... people were fantasy playing raising a family. Their discussions about mud children were hunky dory, but any mention of RL was splat!

#19 Cinja

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:52 PM

Well that's utterly daft, and I doubt I'd want to play there.

I also think that RP enforced MUDs need OOC channels, or commands to speak OOC, even if IC is the norm. You also should not be forced to RP with people you don't want to - I'm not sure if that was a thing there.

Personally, I'd have asked these two, in-character, why they chose to be adventurers if they wanted to settle down and have a family. It seems horribly irresponsible to have kids when you're both full-time wandering monster hunters. Those poor things are going to be orphans at an early age due to an orc-related work accident.

And then, after they give me a doubtlessly stupid answer, I'd have RPed sighing in resignation and walking off toward the local garrison to ask about recent monster incursions.

#20 Severyn

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:47 PM

Ok so, I've read the initial post and skimmed over some of the replies, because well, tldr. Please excuse any points that I make that have already been made.

While I do like the idea of RPing in the world provided by MM, I do not think it should be enforced as that would definitely cripple the active player base. If there were a clan that existed who encouraged, but did not enforce RP, I would be on that like white on rice (apologies for the bad pun)

I did see some concerns about the dickery of people in general. While RPing a thief you may actually lure newer players into CPK and steal their stuff. This is not good, obviously, and boundaries would have to be established.

So in the end, while I'm all for RP, I do not agree in enforcing it by any means. Enforcing such a thing would seriously harm the game I think, but if there are any of you out there who want to use MM as an RP media then go for it because I'm on board

#21 Borral

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:47 AM

Only players on materia magica would gripe about a fantasy game forcing you to play a fantasy game.

I don't join a pickup basketball game and complain that I can't play soccer on their court.

What is there to be afraid of in going this route? Losing a bunch of disgruntled players that would complain if you gave them a gift because it was in the wrong kind of package? There is almost nothing to lose here. Stasis is death. The more change the better. Stir things up. Innovate.

#22 Cinja

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:11 AM

Just a note, since there seems to be some fear over people using IC reasons to be dicks.

People that would do these things are dicks anyway, so they'd do them regardless. "I was just playing my character!" is known as the Gamer Nuremberg Defense in my circles, and it holds about as much water.

There are rules about forming up with people, leading them to a Murder_OK area and then murdering them for their stuff. These rules would still hold, regardless of whether you're "playing a thief" or not. There are also very early warnings that you shouldn't form up with every shady character around, and these are still good ideas.

"Butbut how am I supposed to play a thief if I can't murder and rob other players?"

If you can't find an NPC to murder and rob, you're not looking hard enough. Murdering and robbing NPCs is most of what adventurers do, and it's easier to get away with - this is probably why so many Rogues and Knaves get into the lifestyle.

#23 Karragos

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:25 PM

I think there are alot more obstacles to the success of this game than roleplay could ever fix. I won't turn this into one of those * is overpowered conversations or whatever, but ultimately those conversations are what it comes down to. This game is a swinging pendulum of adjustments and then new adjustments to counter the old adjustments and we never quite find the elusive middle ground. Speaking from experience, I've spent 5-10 years building a character on two seperate occasions only to see the gameplay that all my effort was based on dramatically changed to make my once powerful character lose it's appeal and suddenly I'm faced with the reality of either starting from scratch or (the much newer option of) spending 300 RU to respec. I understand the purpose of some of these things, for balance and whatever, but after a while it's tough to sell a game where donation items are an absolute requirement for every character you own and most of the wealth within the game exists only in the retired community or people who are able to actively play 12 hours a day without distraction.



My hopefully tactful response to some of your arguments

"Donation items are an absolute requirement for every character you own."

I agree that they give an advantage to your character, but unless things change at Archon, I would not say it's even close to gamebreaking.

"(the much newer option of) spending 300 RU to respec."
Character remorts are now cheaper, so it's not even close to 284 RU anymore. 150 for Archons, and 30 less RU per Multiclass, down to 30 for a Level 60 and under. You can turn your Archon into a newly minted Level 2 and keep all your homes/quest gear/anything up to 35 items worth, in the Rune Locker. And keep all your money. Pretty sweet deal imo if you want to start over.

"This game is a swinging pendulum of adjustments and then new adjustments to counter the old adjustments and we never quite find the elusive middle ground."

Said every MMO ever. Pretty much, if you want to have true variety in any game, there will always be some imbalance They key is to keep them from becoming completely out of line. I love the diversity that MM offers through classes/races/abilities/multiclass system. That's what has kept me coming back through the years. I cannot find anything like it! The absolute only way to achieve the balance that you speak of is to go WoW style, and give the same ability a different name to a different class, and tweak the graphic a bit. Two abilities, look different, smell different, but do the exact same thing.

Regarding all the changes though, I'm not a gigantic fan. I was a bit disappointed to find that my Human Ranger lost his Fast Healing and Meditation. Oh well, I got new abilities to make up for it when looking at things from the perspective of a multiclassed character.

#24 Rascon

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 05:25 PM

Only players on materia magica would gripe about a fantasy game forcing you to play a fantasy game.

I don't join a pickup basketball game and complain that I can't play soccer on their court.

What is there to be afraid of in going this route? Losing a bunch of disgruntled players that would complain if you gave them a gift because it was in the wrong kind of package? There is almost nothing to lose here. Stasis is death. The more change the better. Stir things up. Innovate.



shut up stupid