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Request: Broken Skills and Spells


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11 replies to this topic

#1 Kayde

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 02:28 PM

I'd like everyone to take some time, and think about their skills and spells - and make a list of the ones that are broken, prioritize them by how important to you they are, and email the list in to kayde@materiamagica.com and hezkezl@materiamagica.com.

Everyone's help in this would be much appreciated, and I don't want anyone arguing about what spells or skills are more important. What's important to one person, is not the same as what's important to someone else. We just want the list of what's important to you personally.

#2 Thaen

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:02 PM

Did you mean "Request: Broken Proficiencies and Spells" or even "Request: Broken or Undesirable skills"?

Spells are skills and skills aren't only proficiencies.

#3 Scrooge

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:08 PM

You're starting to sound a little dense, Thaen.

#4 Thaen

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:29 PM

But to get back on topic since closed discussion e-mail discussions are pointless, one of the biggest flaws is proficiencies that just about everybody gets.

While there's an excess of spells that just don't cut it despite requiring more "dangerous" aspects such as location, even if spells were fixed it wouldn't make the game interesting. The game has been about filling rounds with spells since before I started playing.

Granted with the addition of Knave it's evolved to filling rounds with spells and strike@<3 but it's not that much of an evolution.

The biggest problem with weapons is that there are excessive differences between base damages based on weapon types. Ideally, you'd want each weapon to perform just about the same to reach balance. Adding +100 damage to weapons was a back-asswards bandaid that only helped with the problem instead of fixing it.

As it stands there's hardly any reason to use weapons other than Two-Handed Axe/Sword, Lance or Axe. 2ha will help you easily achieve 400 damage while the other weapons fit a high damage profile that get better with your gear.

There's no reason to ever use Acrobatics, it requires -way- too much and doesn't have any bonuses other than helping you imagine your character flipping around and shit.

Parry is somewhat in the same boat but it fits the role of profectile blocking with two-handers, though I'd say the skill itself is flawed.

Most games thought about balancing weapon types so everybody can pick their preference as part of a design element, this game just added role play value.

The current admin should come to an ultimate decision: Do they want to keep feeding the roleplay immersion or do they want to rework the game so it's fun to play.

#5 Scrooge

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:19 PM

I haven't played this game actively in approaching a decade, but my recollection was that, historically, the different weapon types were balanced by specific weapons in the game, though it's true there's always been saturation in equipment at the endgame level.

That said, defense has always been a weak point in moongate which has had little chance to grow due to the inability to target specific defensive styles in the first place.

#6 Thaen

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 04:03 AM

It's possible now to play defensively, although incredibly expensive. Either you have the gear to turtle up or you just spam iceball or telekinetic pierce with a two-handed axe.

I'll agree though that there aren't enough effective play styles that really develop around a character's class and not just the gear they have.

#7 Floyd

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 11:46 PM

I do not find acrobatics useless. It fires more often than dodge.

If you feel the game should be balanced by altering weapon base damages, flags or giving the weaker selections support via passive skills, then I am sure the staff would be glad to receive an email or two. Though complaining everything is broken without providing anything useful as a basis for structured evaluation is less beneficial than staying silent.

I do agree that a change up to "filling rounds" could be nice. Even more well received. However, that would take a lot of work. Either way, it appears that staff is planning to rework skills and spells.

I would suggest offering more weak melee skills, requiring specified weapons to be equipped for usage offset with reasonable cool downs. No idiotic double damage, chance of stunning or other affects. Set damage and cool down to "balance" most low end weapons.

Of course, some rare and imbalanced weapons would need adjusting but that should be a per case basis.

I also would comment about giving attacks and defenses cool downs as well, though that would be less likely than dragonburner growing wings out of his rectal cavity and visiting those twin moons...

#8 Thaen

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:43 AM

The only reason Acrobatics should fire off more often (assuming you just didn't mean defenses set to auto) is if your Acrobatic% is much higher than your Dodge%.

I've discussed it with Kayde in tells before, she always goes off on RP related tangents wanting to add asinine new classes to unpopular races.

As a pure example, Chill Touch requires front line access and is coupled with a 1.6 base damage. It doesn't have a chance to double fire. Iceball on the other hand has a base of 3.8 and will double proc very often while not requiring you to have front row access. Not to mention the block rate is abysmal now unless you stack a reflect magic/parry magic flag with reflect-spell%.

Arguably the only good touch spell is Searing Touch, to a lesser degree Energy Drain and Leech as well, though they're both extreme situational choices.

Removing the array of worthless spells is probably the first step that should be taken, or at least adding new skills/systems for using the worthless spells.

#9 Floyd

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 01:32 AM

I like your comments about spells Thaen. Chill touch being the first.

Rp is important, I like it. Hell, base most of my in game decisions on it.

Energy drain is stronger than leech. Searing touch is a decent spell. They all are, in fitting situations.

Acrobatics and dodge are both mastered. Yes, it still fires more with defense auto. Must be how auto randomly selects.

Maybe the staff has something cooking behind scenes.

#10 Thaen

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 01:54 AM

I wouldn't expect it. Esker's work on hunters is an indication that progress is moving in the opposite direction.

I personally don't expect much out of Kayde or Hez, they're code monkeys. They've been offered very simple and efficient fixes for longstanding broken aspects and have ignored them completely. They want to focus on giving Sidhe Shadow Knight and giving Dwarf Brawler.

I'm still waiting on the exp cap to be raised.

I'd be quite satisfied if the AR problem was fixed, I'll gladly trade in my complete cyan vmap for it.

#11 Hezkezl

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:29 PM

Whether or not you have faith in our abilities, we are in the position of fixing a code base and design that has had some neglect over the years, while meeting the needs of both RP and non-RP players.

It's very easy to give "simple and efficient fixes" from the armchair, but completely a different beast when that fix has to be integrated into a code base that has become unwieldy. I have been a professional in the games industry for 15 years and have worked on many AAA titles. I can't count the number of times that game designers have offered up "simple" features or fixes that were completely unreasonable given the structure of the game engine. My job in those situations, as it is here, now, is to find that middle ground that makes a great game without taxing the limited resources we have.

Things will get fixed. There is a lot of back-end work being done that will take time up-front to get the tools and infrastructure we need set up in order to move forward in an organized manner, but once that is completed we can hit the ground running and actually implement features and fixes that won't be changed a second time when we get the skills engine rewritten.

We completely understand the frustration of the player base, and we hope that those changes we have made in the past few months have made things somewhat better than they were. We have solid fixes and rebalancing coming, but I don't like to shoot from the hip, so this means, at least internally, calculating a DPS or virtual damage amount for skills and spells, and building a data mining system to give us metrics about how skills are being used, and how much damage they do so that we have valid data to balance with.

The more moving pieces you add, the more complex the balancing process gets. I would much rather have the tools I need to balance the game once, correctly, instead of subjugating the player base to multiple frustrating changes and nerfs. I think the latter would he much more damaging to the player base.

We have a plan. Good things are coming.

#12 Rascon

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:27 PM

I for one am waiting patiently and have enormous trust in your abilities, I feel like the game is in the hands of a talented professional. Being a LONG-time devoted player to this game, I can't explain how happy I am that the game is moving forward in a decent direction once again. Thanks for all the hard work that you are willing to put in for us. I realize it will take some time, and for me atleast that's fine, I'll be here.