[Xozes]

So, as a leve 168 character, I decided to make another PG run, only to find that I have to now fight most of all the mobs in the moat.

Mobs that form, are in CPK, and do 20-30% damage to me in a single round.

Two rounds, long enough to realize I couldn't flee, and cast calm.

I went from 1140hp to under 300hp. Yea. That's not going to happen.

This, at least, needs an adjustment. There simply isn't a large enough player base to expect everyone who wants to go to PG to be able to find a form...

[Hoopadoop]

Do not third classers venture into the proving grounds for quests? Mayhaps there is an alternative route readily available? While it has be aeons since I last attempted, once long ago there was a hermit who would take you to those grounds for a specific decanter.

Though, he can be as equally difficult to reach at your level. Best just make a first class tourmaholic for multiclassing.

[Hoffer]

It's even more ridiculous for 2nd classers to get through the moat. The demons form with each other and are immune to blind, as far as I can tell. They don't let anyone move west/north of them through the moat until they are killed. There also seem to be random explosions when you enter rooms (don't know if this was there before). The explosion did ~900 damage to me instantly even with resistance to fire damage. The way it is right now, I have no hope of getting through the moat without a huge form of 2nd classers or archon assistance...

[Ledatic]

There are plenty of alternative ways to get into PG other than running the moat.

[Dyalot]

There are plenty of alternative ways to get into PG other than running the moat.

There's also a certain class achievement subquest ("Prove Yourself")
that more or less requires taking the traditional way in.

(Technically, none of its requirements are in the moat itself, but as it has requirements both on the path to the moat past the point of no return AND on the other side, it's pretty improbable to do them without going through the moat itself.)

So I guess anyone wanting to get through the moat before fourth class will want friends to escort them now. I guess that encourages character interaction... and possibly encourages PK as the increased crossing time attracts attention... I can only assume these were the intentions behind the change... Still annoying.

[Minotorious]

There is no point of no return at the moat, you can wor from the beach

[Hoffer]

There is no point of no return at the moat, you can wor from the beach

What does that have to do with anything? I don't understand what was wrong with the moat before that warranted these changes. How are new players ever supposed to get into PG now?

[Hoopadoop]

Mayhaps a frighteningly powerful mayor of rune shall make the iron worm mayoral destination the recall of said grounds for proving.

[Katran]

The class achievement quest does sort of suggest that you go in the normal way though. You have to make it to the statue at the end of the moat.

Otherwise you would walk down to the beach, recall, go back to Rune, come back in via decanter or worm, and get someone else to unlock the hidden door for you so you can go back out to the statue. Doesn't make much sense.

[Dyalot]

The class achievement quest does sort of suggest that you go in the normal way though. You have to make it to the statue at the end of the moat.

Otherwise you would walk down to the beach, recall, go back to Rune, come back in via decanter or worm, and get someone else to unlock the hidden door for you so you can go back out to the statue. Doesn't make much sense.

That was kind of my point. Of course, you could take the back way (gemstone/decanter) in first, do stuff in PG, then come out, and if you're really lucky and the door was left open (or is it unlocked from the inside by default? i've never tried...) go to the statue, then run to the hidden passageway back to recall....then in the front way... anyhow, kind of stupid, albeit technically doable (easier just to have an escort the front way in)

On the plus side, taking the moat in, if hellbent demons flee towards the start of the moat, then they might slow down anyone chasing you.

[Minotorious]

There is no point of no return at the moat, you can wor from the beach

What does that have to do with anything? I don't understand what was wrong with the moat before that warranted these changes. How are new players ever supposed to get into PG now?

It was just in response to Dyalot saying 'past the point of no return'.

Maybe new players aren't supposed to venture into dangerous murky moat waters alone

[Hoopadoop]

There is no point of no return at the moat, you can wor from the beach

What does that have to do with anything? I don't understand what was wrong with the moat before that warranted these changes. How are new players ever supposed to get into PG now?

It was just in response to Dyalot saying 'past the point of no return'.

Maybe new players aren't supposed to venture into dangerous murky moat waters alone

Perhaps there should be less harsh learning curve for those second classers. Not everyone feels like stuffing a coffer full of gold to multiclass. Or, there could just be an alternative to secondclassers obtaining class gemstones from those grounds of proving.

Then again, at this point all characters will have enough player knowledge and skill to navigate the moat; who cares.

One thought is, would it be possible for the NPC's to ignore lower levels excluding bloodlines children?

[Minotorious]

There is no point of no return at the moat, you can wor from the beach

What does that have to do with anything? I don't understand what was wrong with the moat before that warranted these changes. How are new players ever supposed to get into PG now?

It was just in response to Dyalot saying 'past the point of no return'.

Maybe new players aren't supposed to venture into dangerous murky moat waters alone

Perhaps there should be less harsh learning curve for those second classers. Not everyone feels like stuffing a coffer full of gold to multiclass. Or, there could just be an alternative to secondclassers obtaining class gemstones from those grounds of proving.

Then again, at this point all characters will have enough player knowledge and skill to navigate the moat; who cares.

One thought is, would it be possible for the NPC's to ignore lower levels excluding bloodlines children?

Or they can just sack up, socialize, and hitchhike with the awesome experienced players they interact with on this multiplayer game.

[Hoopadoop]

Are you saying that they should not be exploring areas solo even when multiple of quests send them to that same area? Also, that slightly diminishes incentive for those same players to actually attempt learning and bettering themselves by... their own self.

Granted this is a multiplayer world, there is no reason to force low level characters into being babysat by larger characters.

Your response seems unreasonable.

[Minotorious]

Are you saying that they should not be exploring areas solo even when multiple of quests send them to that same area? Also, that slightly diminishes incentive for those same players to actually attempt learning and bettering themselves by... their own self.

Granted this is a multiplayer world, there is no reason to force low level characters into being babysat by larger characters.

Your response seems unreasonable.

You realize not many years ago, it was impossible for low level players to cross the moat most of the time because of players camping it right?

Only for a few years has it been feasible for a lowbie to cross the moat solo.

Also isn't it like, one quest per class that sends you there until later on?

[Perem]

Isn't there a mark for level <100 characters passing through the moat without a form...

What was changed anyway?

[Nil]

Isn't there a mark for level <100 characters passing through the moat without a form...

What was changed anyway?

Much like quests marks are following the philosophy that not all are meant to be completed.

[Katran]

Hellbent demons will not let you flee in the direction of PG (west/north). You can still flee toward the beginning of the moat. Otherwise I don't think the difficulty of any of the mobs has been altered.